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Bill HB531

Ghost1958

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Nov 5, 2015
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1,266
Location
Kentucky

Collins had no idea what was in the original bill, just as Senator Robinson didn't know. Neither of them had read it. They were asked to sponsor the bill by NRA and they assumed that it was a good gun bill and agreed to do it. I happens all the time. This time it came back to bite them in the ass. Collins has now asked me back to explain both the original bill and the changes to him. I am going to see him Monday. I doubt that either Collins or Robinson could tell you what "Force of Law" means in relation to concealed carry signs. If you explained it to them, I think they would both tell you it was a bad thing, but I doubt either could tell you if it was part of current law or not. Most of us on this board have spent more time reading gun laws in the last week than these two men have spent reading them in their lives. Everything is not a conspiracy or plot against our rights. Most things are just simple, dumb mistakes.

I just figured since he was so worried about the changes maybe HE had read it.
Apparently neither actually read legislation they sponsor.
I do know the NRA is far from the be all end all on gun rights and have saddled us with 3 of the worst infringements in history.
That said I do think this was an end run by the NRA to put penalties etc in place in ky on carry that were not in effect before. Just to level the playing field with other states.

Using low info senators abd reps and locals, instead of the more knowledgeable senators these are normally brought too.

Its also a bit odd that the law requiring officers to write citations for misdeamonors instead of arrest popped up when this monstrosity of a bill did.
My thoughts only,

Thats my opinion based on what im privy too. But just my opinion.
I sincerely hope you can get a clean no compromise bill past Collins.
I dont yhonk any bill will pass the senate or house now after this fiasco.
The senate, at least I am told is done with this this year and plans to make a concerted effort to pass a good, well written no frills bill next year.

And yes I am of the mindset anytime pen is put to paper concerning OUR gun rights its ALL of our buisness, not just a handful, or one persons, and the order of the day is usually comprise more of our rights to gain a bit of permission.
JMO
 
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color of law

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My concern is even though gutshot is a young buck full of vim and vigor, who is being mentored to carry on the cause and making sure elected public servants honer the oath to support the constitution that they freely took?
 

Ghost1958

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Nov 5, 2015
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1,266
Location
Kentucky
That said I do think this was an end run by the NRA to penalties etc in place in ky on carry that were not in effect before. Using low info senators abd reps and locals, instead of the more knowledgeable senators these are normally brought too.
Thats my opinion based on what im privy too. But just my opinion.

That is absurd and approaching paranoia.

That would be your opinion.
Which you are entitled too of course.
History , both years ago, and recently , based on their continuing insistance of NICS background checks, which they insisted on to begin with.
Non support of OC in several states, and other gun regulation they support, would tend to make alotof other gun owners a bit more dubious.
I wouldnt call that absurd or paranoid, just not blind lockstep trust, based on historical facts.
Just personally Im sure there are at least two senators who could have/can write a much better bill for KY that is clear and concise than the NRA.
Personally I like GOA and SA Foundation much better.
 
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Ghost1958

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Kentucky

Two Senators?!!!! There are twenty senators who could do it, but they haven't. Where are these perfect bills? Why are they not already before the General Assembly? Writing a bill is easy. Getting them passed is another thing, as we are seeing this year. Please provide links to all of the good gun bills these other senators have gotten added into the KRS. If they are such active supporters of 2A, why have we still got so many unaddressed problems? Why have they failed to address them?
I look forward to seeing a treasure trove of good gun bills in 2017 from those same senators. I feel certain I would support each and every one of these futher bills, just waiting in the wings to appear. I hope they have a super secret plan to get them through the house.

I like the rhetoric and bluster of GAO, too. I am a member and have Larry Pratt's personal cell phone number on my speed dial. Whenever I want progun rhetoric or bluster, I call him, but they are very short on accomplishments. I think the lawsuits from SAF are changing the landscape of 2A laws, but what have they done in KY? Nothing.

I honestly aam not trying to ruffle feathers.
Simply stating my and many other gun owners. feelings, especially in Ky of the NRA.
I also realize they are the Holy Grail for some also.
I was a member but simply could not support them any more .
They have supported more anti gin lrgislation over the years than they have opposed while claiming they are pro 2a.
This fiasco we just averted is a prime example. Not counting their helping to pass. GCA and NFA.

GOA may not be as huge but they havent damaged us twice on a national level.
SAF has been doing the heavy lifting for the 2a for years now.
I
Not trying start a fuss. But we could get farther getting Kentuckians to let their reps know to propose a bill, instead of just figjt off bad ones.
Anybody called or mailed in support for St Onge"s bill nullifing Federal gun laws in KY?
I didnt hear much cheering for that when it came out.
Even though it would put KY joining alot of other states in true Pro 2A stance.
 

Ghost1958

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Kentucky

Before I tackle the many things wrong with this post, I'd like to see all those links I asked to see in the last post and hear about your open carry into a school that I told you to do. You do a lot of talking but can't produce any documentation of anything you say or produce any action to support your words. I would imagine the same thing would happen should the St. Onge bill become state law, because I would then challenge you to carry onto federal property and I bet you wouldn't do that, either. You didn't hear any cheering about that bill because most rational people realize it is a dream. No federal judge woulud accept it as valid. I am sure that it gets Senator St. Onge a lot of votes from people like you, but that's all it does. It is a sham.

Ive alresdy addressed carrying into a school. However the instant ST. Onges bill would become law ang ky has no law against it ill be happy to let you watch me do so.

I didnt say I had links. I KNOW a couple that could write a much better bill. One that Ill be speaking with again , if this doesnt pan out about doing just that.
You really need to read posts completely before flying off the handle.
Your entitled to your opinion sir, but the rest of the gun owners in Ky are entitled to their own opinions.
Simply because you disagree with opinons differing from yours doesnt make them wrong.
 

Ghost1958

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Kentucky
Look I didnt join this board to stay in a ******* contest with one person.
You want permitless cc. I want permitless cc. Heck about all carriers want that in our state.

So we are in agreement on that.
I dont know about you , but Im not willing to give up one more inch too the other side to get it however.
Most in Ky arent. Compromising a RIGHT is how we got stuck with needing permits to cc in every state, not just this one.
All for doing away with ccdw permits required.
Absolutely not willing to give any ground to do so.

Thats it in a nut shell.
My purpose being here is not to keep you agitated Gutshot. But I may not agree with you all the time to keep you calm.

Just a side note, a min of 8 stats have signed nullification bills into law, and a federal judge has already dismissed a Brady bunch challange to one.
 
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Duke Glass

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Apr 10, 2014
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Location
Central KY
I like this much better

O.k.....I like this much much better. I would have fought tooth and nail against the fines and misdemeanor charges.

This was a big stick that would have been used against us a few years down the road when they could wave a stack of papers

in front of us to point to what a bunch of "criminals" we are, without ever mentioning the word "misdemeanor".

New revisions look good. Thanks for all the hard work.





My friend, where are you located and can I buy you a beer? Your efforts , especially this time around for the things you do for our state is amazing! I like to think by going downtown here locally talking to my representatives, making phone calls and emails I am making a difference, but you my friend are truly on the front lines for us!

This is GREAT news. I really do hope these changes will keep the flow and give us a chance to celebrate.

If passed fully I am in favor of buying dinner for anyone and everyone here and celebrating!
 

Ghost1958

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Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,266
Location
Kentucky
I haven't posted anything lately, because I suspect that this board is being read by some that I don't want them knowing everything that I know. That is probably not a concern any longer. I have been back to Frankfort every day this week. Today is day 50 of the 60 day legislative session. In order for this bill to pass it would have to be heard in committee, approved and sent to the floor, then it would have to be passed by the full house and then sent to the senate where it would have to go through the same process from the start. All of this would have to be done in the next 10 working days. Committees generally meet once a week. The Judiciary Committee meets on Tuesdays. There are 124 bills assigned to the House Judiciary Committee, HB 531 is just one of those 124. Usually 4 or 5 bills will be considered at each committee meeting. On top of all of this is the fact that the democrats control the committees and the chairman of that particular committee is very anti gun. He may allow a lot of bills through his committee, but it is unlikely he will allow this one through. All of this means that the chances of this bill being heard are very, very slim. It is not impossible, but very unlikely. Things will move very fast in the next few days. Many more bills will be passed in the next 10 days than have been passed in the last 50. That is the way the process works. Committees will meet more often that normal and more bills will be heard at each meeting. That could help, but I am not encouraged.

I know that nobody wants to hear about "next year", we hear too much of that, but that is what we are left with. Hopefully, we can take the next 9 months and get this bill right from the beginning and have more success. Nobody likes these changes in the middle of the stream. It takes too much time and work. It just looks shoddy. We all have to remember that passing a good bill does not begin in Frankfort, early in January. It begins at your local precinct on election day, in November. If we had a friendly committee in a friendly house, this bill could be passed in 2 or 3 days. We don't have that. Even if your Representative is very pro gun, he has to go, if he is a democrat (he could always switch parties). If you like your Representative and he is a democrat, tell him to change parties or you will be forced to work for his defeat, and do it. The only way we can get the committee chairmanships out of the control of the democrats is to make them the minority party, by one means or another. We can't beat individuals like Darryl Owens, because the people of his district don't want bills like this passed and they will keep electing him. When the republicans get control of the house, they will put a republican in as chairmen of the committees. Then we will have a chance. If we keep electing democrats, even pro gun democrats, people like Owens will keep control of the committees and our bills will go nowhere.


Why would you care for ky gun owners knowing what you know?
It is as much their right to know what is being attempted to be pushed thru, in detail , concerning their rights as it is yours.

Just.a thought.
Defeating pro gun reps in either party is a BAD idea. We need every one on our side we can get.

Pushing bad hastily rewritten bills thru a committe and failing, is hardly a reason to not support 2A candidates of either party cuz their are antis on both sides. Heck there are anti 2A forces in the NRA.
 

poetdante

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Louisville, KY
Ghost you obviously have not been part of events where things posted about our activities here have been used to our detriment. This is a public forum, the enemy has said they watch this and other forums. Enemies who have billionairs backing them and pay folks to counter our voluntary efforts. If you want to know more be more helpful and a lot more humble


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BB62

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Why would you care for ky gun owners knowing what you know?
It is as much their right to know what is being attempted to be pushed thru, in detail , concerning their rights as it is yours.

Just.a thought.
Defeating pro gun reps in either party is a BAD idea. We need every one on our side we can get.

Pushing bad hastily rewritten bills thru a committe and failing, is hardly a reason to not support 2A candidates of either party cuz their are antis on both sides. Heck there are anti 2A forces in the NRA.
My goodness, you are clueless, truly clueless. <shakes head>
 

Ghost1958

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Kentucky
My goodness, you are clueless, truly clueless. <shakes head>

Nah actually the opposite.
As far as knowing things gun related I dont have to find out here. A couple calls takes care of that.

The idea that billionaires have to lurk a website to find out what is going on with ANY bill is a bit naieve though.

Here is a bit of reality.
When cc was made legal in this state there was no need for a permit scheme as we have now. It made no sense in a constitutionally OC state then, and it doesnt now.
It was a revenue stream ie money racquet then, and it still is. The state under any party is going to be loathe to give that up.
Its been a little game all these years.
Heck the state didnt have the authority granted it to create a permit system. Only prevent CC. Or allow it. Not regulate it,

But a bunch wanted CC so they got by with it.
Much like a few wanted permitless cc so bad, right now, they were willing to swallow Force of law signage to get this bill passed in its original form until it was plain that would not fly. Period.

That some are still willing to give an inch for ANYTHING is somewhat clueless at this point.
 

poetdante

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Jan 30, 2014
Messages
449
Location
Louisville, KY
Yes because the state is going to care about a few thousand dollars that it takes to cover the paperwork costs. If anything it probably costs them more in certifying instructors, paperwork, appeals, etc than the $60 per student costs. Allowing instructors to charge up to $75 per student and $10 for range time sounds more like incentive to get people to offer the classes so the burden wouldnt be on sheriffs' offices


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