Canadian on student visa denied CPL

[zigziggityzoo]

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CrossPistols wrote:

RaspberrySurprise wrote:

jeremy05 wrote:

no such thing as a I-94 visa.   Thats just your paperwork needed to travel with a student visa.

and no you shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm as you are not a US citizen


Also, you shouldnt even be allowed to own a gun!

And why not? I thought self defense was a basic human right.

Yes true, but he doesn't have to come here. He is free to go to school in canada where the schools are superior to ours! lol therefore he is not being denied human rights.

You can't have a "condition of entry" rule on a whole friggen state.

 

[RaspberrySurprise]

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CrossPistols wrote:

RaspberrySurprise wrote:

jeremy05 wrote:

no such thing as a I-94 visa. Thats just your paperwork needed to travel with a student visa.

and no you shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm as you are not a US citizen


Also, you shouldnt even be allowed to own a gun!

And why not? I thought self defense was a basic human right.

Yes true, but he doesn't have to come here. He is free to go to school in canada where the schools are superior to ours! lol therefore he is not being denied human rights.

So it's just fine with you to deny him the right to defend himself while in the US simply because he's not a citizen and/or Canadian? Really??

 

[jeremiahJohnson]

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zigziggityzoo wrote:

CrossPistols wrote:

RaspberrySurprise wrote:

jeremy05 wrote:

no such thing as a I-94 visa. Thats just your paperwork needed to travel with a student visa.

and no you shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm as you are not a US citizen


Also, you shouldnt even be allowed to own a gun!

And why not? I thought self defense was a basic human right.

Yes true, but he doesn't have to come here. He is free to go to school in canada where the schools are superior to ours! lol therefore he is not being denied human rights.

You can't have a "condition of entry" rule on a whole friggen state.

Sure we can it is our country, our rules, if they don't like it don't come here. Remember we may be a border state, but we are also an entry point from one country to another. The U.S. Constitution, and the Michigan Constitution, are just that, for U.s. Citizens, and Michigan Citizens.

 

[zigziggityzoo]

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CrossPistols wrote:

zigziggityzoo wrote:

CrossPistols wrote:

RaspberrySurprise wrote:

jeremy05 wrote:

no such thing as a I-94 visa.   Thats just your paperwork needed to travel with a student visa.

and no you shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm as you are not a US citizen


Also, you shouldnt even be allowed to own a gun!

And why not? I thought self defense was a basic human right.

Yes true, but he doesn't have to come here. He is free to go to school in canada where the schools are superior to ours! lol therefore he is not being denied human rights.

You can't have a "condition of entry" rule on a whole friggen state.

Sure we can  it is our country, our rules, if they don't like it don't come here. Remember we may be a border state, but we are also an entry point from one country to another.  The U.S. Constitution, and the Michigan Constitution, are just that, for U.s. Citizens, and Michigan Citizens. 

Our country does have rules, where all people are protected equally under the law, citizen or non.

Therefore your argument is invalid.

 

[RaspberrySurprise]

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CrossPistols wrote:

zigziggityzoo wrote:

CrossPistols wrote:

RaspberrySurprise wrote:

jeremy05 wrote:

no such thing as a I-94 visa. Thats just your paperwork needed to travel with a student visa.

and no you shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm as you are not a US citizen


Also, you shouldnt even be allowed to own a gun!

And why not? I thought self defense was a basic human right.

Yes true, but he doesn't have to come here. He is free to go to school in canada where the schools are superior to ours! lol therefore he is not being denied human rights.

You can't have a "condition of entry" rule on a whole friggen state.

Sure we can it is our country, our rules, if they don't like it don't come here. Remember we may be a border state, but we are also an entry point from one country to another. The U.S. Constitution, and the Michigan Constitution, are just that, for U.s. Citizens, and Michigan Citizens.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

-Thomas Jefferson

Bolding mine for emphasis. Either you agree that there is a basic human right to self defense or you don't. that it is magically suspended when he comes into the US is patently absurd.

 

[jeremiahJohnson]

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zigziggityzoo wrote:

CrossPistols wrote:

zigziggityzoo wrote:

CrossPistols wrote:

RaspberrySurprise wrote:

jeremy05 wrote:

no such thing as a I-94 visa. Thats just your paperwork needed to travel with a student visa.

and no you shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm as you are not a US citizen


Also, you shouldnt even be allowed to own a gun!

And why not? I thought self defense was a basic human right.

Yes true, but he doesn't have to come here. He is free to go to school in canada where the schools are superior to ours! lol therefore he is not being denied human rights.

You can't have a "condition of entry" rule on a whole friggen state.

Sure we can it is our country, our rules, if they don't like it don't come here. Remember we may be a border state, but we are also an entry point from one country to another. The U.S. Constitution, and the Michigan Constitution, are just that, for U.s. Citizens, and Michigan Citizens.

Our country does have rules, where all people are protected equally under the law, citizen or non.

Therefore your argument is invalid.

So that's why we are trying Muslim Terrorist (Non Citizens) in New York, so we can Afford them Constitutional rights! Ah ok well now I agree with you, because I wanna make sure these human beings get fair and equal treatment under our superior Judicial system. lol

 

[jeremiahJohnson]

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RaspberrySurprise wrote:

CrossPistols wrote:

zigziggityzoo wrote:

CrossPistols wrote:

RaspberrySurprise wrote:

jeremy05 wrote:

no such thing as a I-94 visa. Thats just your paperwork needed to travel with a student visa.

and no you shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm as you are not a US citizen


Also, you shouldnt even be allowed to own a gun!

And why not? I thought self defense was a basic human right.

Yes true, but he doesn't have to come here. He is free to go to school in canada where the schools are superior to ours! lol therefore he is not being denied human rights.

You can't have a "condition of entry" rule on a whole friggen state.

Sure we can it is our country, our rules, if they don't like it don't come here. Remember we may be a border state, but we are also an entry point from one country to another. The U.S. Constitution, and the Michigan Constitution, are just that, for U.s. Citizens, and Michigan Citizens.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

-Thomas Jefferson

Bolding mine for emphasis. Either you agree that there is a basic human right to self defense or you don't. that it is magically suspended when he comes into the US is patently absurd.

I love the Opening to the Declaration Of Independence!, and that is a cool Quote by Thomas Jefferson. Now go one more step and show Me Law from the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights, that Allows or Denies a state from controlling its borders. Or where Foreigners are afforded Our Constitutional Rights.
Example: Can foreigners who are here legally (school, Work, etc) vote for President?

 

[Big Gay Al]

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CrossPistols wrote:

I love the Opening to the Declaration Of Independence!, and that is a cool Quote by Thomas Jefferson. Now go one more step and show Me Law from the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights, that Allows or Denies a state from controlling its borders. Or where Foreigners are afforded Our Constitutional Rights.
Example: Can foreigners who are here legally (school, Work, etc) vote for President?

No, they can't vote, but that's one of the very few rights that would not apply to non-US citizens.

 

[jeremiahJohnson]

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Big Gay Al
I asked first, I said I agree, but I don't think this Student is going to get to vote, & last I looked that is a U.S. Citizens right only. I am just saying that the Constitution isn't a blanket that covers all people on all Rights

 

[Big Gay Al]

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Ok, in answer to your question, the 14th Amendment specifically spells out rights of US Citizenship. However, it also states

"nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within it's jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

It doesn't say citizen in the above, it says "person."

There are some other amendments that specify citizen over person or "the people," but they generally deal with voting. We do not restrict the right of people, regardless of their citizenship to exercise their right to worship however they wish. Likewise, we do not limit the free speech rights of non-citizens.

And if, for example the OP isn't supposed to be allowed a CPL in Michigan, now come there's a place for putting down information like alien registration number or I-94 number? Seems to me the left hand of gov't doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Which seems to be typical.

 

[jeremiahJohnson]

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Big Gay Al wrote:

Ok, in answer to your question, the 14th Amendment specifically spells out rights of US Citizenship. However, it also states

"nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within it's jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

It doesn't say citizen in the above, it says "person."

There are some other amendments that specify citizen over person or "the people," but they generally deal with voting. We do not restrict the right of people, regardless of their citizenship to exercise their right to worship however they wish. Likewise, we do not limit the free speech rights of non-citizens.

And if, for example the OP isn't supposed to be allowed a CPL in Michigan, now come there's a place for putting down information like alien registration number or I-94 number? Seems to me the left hand of gov't doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Which seems to be typical.

Not too shabby! The Devils in the Details!

 

[sevenplusone]

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jeremy05 wrote:

no such thing as a I-94 visa. Thats just your paperwork needed to travel with a student visa.

and no you shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm as you are not a US citizen


Also, you shouldnt even be allowed to own a gun!

I sure hope you are joking.

 

[camaro_boy]

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Hi again,



So a few bits of information have come up. Because my status is appearently student visa i am screwed. Even having met the residency requirements they passed a law in I believe 97 about this but I am trying to get in contact with the attorney general in lansing to see if I can do anything about this or if what information i have been told is infact correct. I have already gone this far i intend to see it through.

Thanks for all the input i didn;t expect it to turn out like this but unfortunately its just like being back home in canada. Unarmed and unprotected, but thats ok. I do plan to stay here for work and through one of the many means get my American Citizenship. Its not going to be a easy road but Ill get there. I love the laws here in the states i feel that you have more control over your own protection here where as back home and some certain states that is not the case. I believe that every man has the right to defend himself and family but the government doesn;t see it that way. And for understanding circumstances.

I might be crossing borders with this point but if you look at the idiot down in virginia tech you can see that if this law was enforced there, many kids would still be alive today. It sucks but unfortunately we have idiots everywherethat are willing to hurt innocent people because they are so messed up.

So to close I would like to thank you all for your input and I will try to keep you updated on what I find out. i dont have the resources to going through court or nothing like that but if im allowed to ill meet with the appointed people that can answer a few of my questions.

Thanks again for all you time

Douglas

 

[Big Gay Al]

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canadian_boy wrote:

Hi again,



So a few bits of information have come up. Because my status is appearently student visa i am screwed. Even having met the residency requirements they passed a law in I believe 97 about this but I am trying to get in contact with the attorney general in lansing to see if I can do anything about this or if what information i have been told is infact correct. I have already gone this far i intend to see it through.

Thanks for all the input i didn;t expect it to turn out like this but unfortunately its just like being back home in canada. Unarmed and unprotected, but thats ok. I do plan to stay here for work and through one of the many means get my American Citizenship. Its not going to be a easy road but Ill get there. I love the laws here in the states i feel that you have more control over your own protection here where as back home and some certain states that is not the case. I believe that every man has the right to defend himself and family but the government doesn;t see it that way. And for understanding circumstances.

I might be crossing borders with this point but if you look at the idiot down in virginia tech you can see that if this law was enforced there, many kids would still be alive today. It sucks but unfortunately we have idiots everywherethat are willing to hurt innocent people because they are so messed up.

So to close I would like to thank you all for your input and I will try to keep you updated on what I find out. i dont have the resources to going through court or nothing like that but if im allowed to ill meet with the appointed people that can answer a few of my questions.

Thanks again for all you time

Douglas

Whoever you talk to, ask them about the entries on the application. Why are the lines there for immigrant alien and I-94. I'd love to know the answer to that one.

 

[Mike]

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canadian_boy wrote:

I might be crossing borders with this point but if you look at the idiot down in virginia tech you can see that if this law was enforced there, many kids would still be alive today.

Mr. Cho was not here on a student visa (he was a permament resident) nor did he have a permit to conceal.

 

[camaro_boy]

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"Michigan: Michigan law is a bit of a mess! It says:
a person shall not purchase, carry, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section
One of the requirements for getting such a license is:
The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state
However, that requirement was struck down as unconstitutional (on equal protection grounds) by the Michigan Court of Appeals. (See Chan v City of Troy, 220 Mich App 376.) However, it hasn't formally been repealed by the legislature yet.
You don't need that license, though, if you get a concealed-carry license:
An individual who is licensed under section 5b to carry a concealed pistol is not required to obtain a license under section 2 to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol.
However, such a license is only issued to a Michigan resident who is a citizen or:
a resident legal alien as defined in section 11 of title 18 of the United States Code
The confusing thing is that section 11 of title 18 has nothing at all to do with defining resident legal aliens! It's not clear to me whether this is supposed to be referring only to legal permanent resident aliens or all legal resident aliens.
For out-of-staters, things are confusing, too! The requirement for a pistol license does not apply to:
A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by another state.
That gives non-Michigan-resident non-citizens no relief. However, we also have:
The requirements of this act for obtaining a license to carry a concealed pistol do not apply to any of the following:
...
A resident of another state who is licensed by that state to carry a concealed pistol.
Wow. The long and short of it is that I can't figure out what is and isn't legal or required or whatever for non-citizens when in Michigan. Read the firearms laws (Act 372 of 1927) yourself and consult a lawyer, and use extreme caution!

"


After reading that i feel there may still be hope for me. I was told that i should contact a Mr Mike Cox. Is there any easy way to get ahold of this guy? I understand hes an attorney general but i cant see him actually replying to me. Any ideas?

 

[Guest]

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canadian_boy wrote:

"Michigan: Michigan law is a bit of a mess! It says:
a person shall not purchase, carry, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section
One of the requirements for getting such a license is:
The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state
However, that requirement was struck down as unconstitutional (on equal protection grounds) by the Michigan Court of Appeals. (See mikestilly wrote: [/b]

Hi Everyone,

The Mike Cox campaign is looking fo a couple volunteers to help man/woman their table at the gun show. It's a lot of fun and you can open carry at the table. (make sure to enter the vendor enterence & recieve vendor pass) It's fun talking politics, guns, politics, possibly open carry .. I've met all kinds of people from board members of MCGRO, trainers of all types. If interested please contact Robbie Rankey at (989) 714-2224 or robbie.rankey@gmail.com

If you want post on this thread that you're going maybe others would like to join you.

The show is Saturday April 3r 9-5 pm

It's a little far fetched, but maybe not.

 

[camaro_boy]

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I did read that unfortunately i will be busy during this time period. I was looking more for a way to contact him either by email or by phone.

 

[Evil Creamsicle]

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Google. Best way to find the phone number for the Attorney General of Michigan's office.

 

[Guest]

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http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-21153-51368--,00.html