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Homelessness

thewayiseeit240

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
17
Location
Minnesota
Seems like the odds are against the individual(s) that don't conform to society. Or what about individuals who sell their home for an RV or travel around with those mini trailer homes, and live lot to lot the rest of their life? I'm sure they at least have a p.o. box. Still maintain valid drivers license, insurance ect but I guess they would not be able to travel around with a permit to carry cards or or even permit to purchase and have a firearm in their RV or mini trailer home, let alone legally in their possession.
Can you have a valid drivers license with p.o. box?
 
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color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,383
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Minnesota Rules Parts 7410.0100 to 7410.0600

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/dvs/forms-documents/Documents/IdentificationRequirements_English.pdf

The words residence or address do not occur.

In the Minnesota Administrative Rules Part 7410.0100 §Subp. 12.

Residence address and permanent mailing address. For purposes of drivers' licenses, enhanced drivers' licenses, permits, identification cards, and enhanced identification cards, "residence address" and "permanent mailing address" mean the postal address of the permanent domicile within this state where an individual:
A. resides;
B. intends to reside within 30 calendar days after the date of application; or
C. intends to return whenever absent.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/rules/?id=7410.0100
As I have said thousands of times - the three most important things in law is Definition, definition and definition.
They don't define "permanent domicile." What is a "permanent domicile"?
 

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,623
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
first, i never said the nice LE(s) actions were proper, legal, or any of the other rhetoric being thrown around.

second, i am stating, the nice LE(s) DO IT w/o RAS or PC ~ period! Citizens are left to fend for their themselves through the judicial channels to get their property back. in the case about firearms, the truly disgusting factor is that JQPublic hands over their firearms, w/o hesitation, under the misused guise of 'officer safety'.

third, you changed the parameter through the use of 'at the side of the road'

fourth, the OP started thread by discussing the consideration of a homeless individual w/a firearm permit. there is a high probability the permit is invalid due to incorrect address. same could be true of the their DL. your continued statement the nice LEs need RAS/PC...let's see, homeless individual w/possibly sloppily dress, bad hygiene, vehicle is trashed, gets stopped, shows DL w/incorrect address all the while trying to explain why they are homeless, then the nice LE moves to wanting to search the vehicle, then the discussion about firearms and permit w/incorrect address is shown and the chatter about being homeless starts again (at this point all the RAS/PC from the nice LE's perspective is there) so now the firearms are taken for officer safety, then firearms are checked in the database...

fifth, you have valid DL, Permit, possibly good hygiene & appearance and nothing to explain on your proffered documents which wouldn't raise the specter of RAS/PC to the nice LE to continue even wanting to consider a search of your vehicle.

btw, how would homeless individual vehicle be handled if there is no permanent address. yet another facet leading to increasing the nice LE's perception they have RAS/PC to screw with the homeless individual.

ipse

btw...thanks for a discussion w/o name calling nor degrading commentary, it is appreciated.
Regarding the bolded portion in your comments.... to EXCLUDE the "or any other location" from my original post immediately following my "side of the road" comment seems just a little snipe like to make an false allegation that I did not make!
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,779
Location
here nc
i am glad i provided opportunity in my post you believe was a little snipe, to see what you initially posted as you stated your perception re your responsibility, then in another post what you reiterated about your responsibility with the added prepositional phrase and conjunction which changes the parameters of your original statement by changing the location you are declaring your responsibility!

now, some might consider the above commentary a little bit like a snipe...fortunately, i don't, but rather assuring and clarifying a previous bit of information i submitted.

ipse
 

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,623
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
i am glad i provided opportunity in my post you believe was a little snipe, to see what you initially posted as you stated your perception re your responsibility, then in another post what you reiterated about your responsibility with the added prepositional phrase and conjunction which changes the parameters of your original statement by changing the location you are declaring your responsibility!

now, some might consider the above commentary a little bit like a snipe...fortunately, i don't, but rather assuring and clarifying a previous bit of information i submitted.

ipse
Not going to say "what did you just say" just knowing that I am not going to be playing these types of word games with you for your entertainment or whatever you think you are getting out of it.

I am not playing YOUR game.... Bye

To the rest of the thread participants.... I am sorry for my part of this drift from the original thread!
 

thewayiseeit240

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
17
Location
Minnesota
uh, if the vagrant has no 'address' then they have no permit, per sub 7 quote: 7a. Change of address; loss or destruction of permit. (a) Within 30 days after changing permanent address...
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.714

btw, if the indigent has no 'address' you also do not have a viable driver's license per MN statutes 171.11 DUPLICATE LICENSE; CHANGE OF DOMICILE OR NAME https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=171.11

since you have changed the parameter(s) and thrown $$$ into the equation, i know of several folk across the country who quietly (read surreptitiously) live in their rented storage shed (down from a fast food) with their belongings. (please note I am not advocating any breaking of private agreements nor community's legal statutes made with the lessor of the storage shed, just stating my knowledge of certain situations)

i have also known of folk permanently negotiating a motel room (for years actually in once case) which would provide you an email addy to update Firearm & DL permits.

bottom line, the citizen you are referencing has no requirement to turn in their invalid permits nor their possibly invalid driver's license.

ipse
To reiterate what you stated above, I have found a MN Statute regarding domicile with the following criteria
Subp. 3. Considerations. The following items listed will be considered in determining whether or not a person is domiciled in this state:
A. location of domicile for prior years;
B. where the person votes or is registered to vote, but casting an illegal vote does not establish domicile for income tax purposes;
C. status as a student;
D. classification of employment as temporary or permanent;
E. location of employment;
F. location of newly acquired living quarters whether owned or rented;
G. present status of the former living quarters, i.e., whether it was sold, offered for sale, rented, or available for rent to another;
H. whether homestead status has been requested and/or obtained for property tax purposes on newly purchased living quarters and whether the homestead status of the former living quarters has not been renewed;
I. ownership of other real property;
J. jurisdiction in which a valid driver's license was issued;
K. jurisdiction from which any professional licenses were issued;
L. location of the person's union membership;
M. jurisdiction from which any motor vehicle license was issued and the actual physical location of the vehicles;
N. whether resident or nonresident fishing or hunting licenses purchased;
O. whether an income tax return has been filed as a resident or nonresident;
P. whether the person has fulfilled the tax obligations required of a resident;
Q. location of any bank accounts, especially the location of the most active checking account;
R. location of other transactions with financial institutions;
S. location of the place of worship at which the person is a member;
T. location of business relationships and the place where business is transacted;
U. location of social, fraternal, or athletic organizations or clubs or in a lodge or country club, in which the person is a member;
V. address where mail is received;
W. percentage of time (not counting hours of employment) that the person is physically present in Minnesota and the percentage of time (not counting hours of employment) that the person is physically present in each jurisdiction other than Minnesota;
X. location of jurisdiction from which unemployment compensation benefits are received;
Y. location of schools at which the person or the person's spouse or children attend, and whether resident or nonresident tuition was charged; and
Z. statements made to an insurance company, concerning the person's residence, and on which the insurance is based.
Any one of the items listed above will not, by itself, determine domicile.
Charitable contributions made by a person will not be considered in determining whether that person is domiciled in Minnesota.

-Source
(https://www.revisor.mn.gov/rules/?id=8001.0300)

Another thing to think about is what about when REAL ID comes into stipulation? I was reading other forums that RV and other travel goers would require a signed affidavit certifying that they live in such and such area to use their "address(s) to meet the Federal Regulations. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,417
Location
White Oak Plantation
While homeless and indigent are routinely interchanged in casual conversation there is a distinct difference.

Full Definition of homeless: having no home or permanent place of residence

Full Definition of indigent 1: suffering from extreme poverty : impoverished

What does a homeless citizen look like? What does a indigent citizen look like? Can a indigent citizen be homeless?
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,383
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
To reiterate what you stated above, I have found a MN Statute regarding domicile with the following criteria
Subp. 3. Considerations. The following items listed will be considered in determining whether or not a person is domiciled in this state:

(Snip)

-Source
(https://www.revisor.mn.gov/rules/?id=8001.0300)

Another thing to think about is what about when REAL ID comes into stipulation? I was reading other forums that RV and other travel goers would require a signed affidavit certifying that they live in such and such area to use their "address(s) to meet the Federal Regulations. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
What you pointed out ONLY applies the revenue/income taxes and nothing else as I already pointed out.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...Homelessness&p=2198343&viewfull=1#post2198343
I'm just pointing it out. I'm not taking issue.

Real ID is federal and is for the purpose of getting on an airplane.
 

thewayiseeit240

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
17
Location
Minnesota
Things to consider would being able to use a virtual physical address to have "legal" documents sent to. Some rental boxes won't accept such mail sent there thus diminishing credentials to be send there or for tax purposes. I notice the Dakota's have a virtual address system that makes it possible for a individual to live off the grid or travel freely. Not sure if one could have a virtual address in another state and then live in another.
 

robdoar

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Messages
152
Location
Minneapolis
Wow, such internet experts.

You have to notify the Sheriff within 30 days, you dont need a new card. If you wanted to comply fully with the law you would update with a new mailing address every time you are staying at a new place. Alternatively you could get a friends address you can receive mail at.

Realistically, you can wait until youre settled somewhere else before sending notification. Many, many people wait months or even years after a move forgetting to notify their issuing sheriff.

Also worth noting, the Sheriff cannot revoke your permit, only a judge can.
 
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