I have been called for Jury duty!!!

[Motofixxer]

From http://www.fija.org/docs/JG_Jurors_Handbook.pdf

"You are bound by the oath that you took at the beginning of
the trial to follow the instructions that I give you, even if
you personally disagree with them."82 If the jurors
explicitly ask about nullification, we are told that the
judge should warn them of the supposed "fact" that
acquittal of a guilty man for any reason would be a
breach of their solemn oaths as jurors.83"

Hmm sounds like intimidation and coercion


Here is more good info on Juries and our Rights

 

[Herr Heckler Koch]

Here is more good info on Juries and our Rights

The general misconception is that any statute passed by legislators bearing the appearance of law constitutes the law of the land. The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and any statute, to be valid, must be in agreement. It is impossible for a law which violates the Constitution to be valid.

Could not be better said!

Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and Guns and the Truth.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

i agree about jury duty. i think it is a civic responsibility.

i was arguing with some (imo) moron who claimed that jury duty was forced conscription and the govt. had no right to force him into it.

this was a guy who repeatedly criticized the criminal justice system, and then when he has a chance to participate in it, presumably for the better, he makes excuses



Exactly correct SIR

 

[Citizen]

SNIP Exactly correct SIR

Oh, I don't know. All it takes to complain about the criminal justice system is to be alive--First Amendment. Plus, the criminal justice system can have a lot wrong with it that no juror can fix. For example, the Blue Wall of Silence, criminalization of drugs, etc., etc., etc. PALO did not say the the complainer was complaining against the jury system; PALO said "criminal justice system."

Even so, jury duty can cause some serious economic hardships, depending on the person and the duration of the trial.

So, I'm not convinced about PALO's comment.

 

[MKEgal]

Here's a chuckle...: I'm supposed to be in the jury pool next week.
Out of all the years I could have served (and would have been less informed and more likely to believe the lies the prosecutor will try to put over on the jury) I was on standby once.

Now I actually have to show up to convince them that they should have looked at the court record system before sending me the summons. (Yes, I tried explaining it on the phone & the clerk wouldn't listen.) Maybe the first day will convince them that I was telling the truth & they'll dismiss me.

And some of the things they say in their "informative letter" are asinine...
For example, they tell us not to bring a spoon (to eat lunch) because they'll consider it a weapon.
Yes, I'm serious.
I'm wondering if that only applies to metal spoons, so I could use plastic to eat my yogurt?

I'm perfectly willing to serve on a jury, but considering everything I really doubt any lawyer will let me, other than for a minor civil matter. Maybe I should print out FIJA fliers & leave them in strategic locations?

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Oh, I don't know. All it takes to complain about the criminal justice system is to be alive--First Amendment. Plus, the criminal justice system can have a lot wrong with it that no juror can fix. For example, the Blue Wall of Silence, criminalization of drugs, etc., etc., etc. PALO did not say the the complainer was complaining against the jury system; PALO said "criminal justice system."

Even so, jury duty can cause some serious economic hardships, depending on the person and the duration of the trial.

So, I'm not convinced about PALO's comment.

Citizenship comes well equipped with potential economic hardships, serving in the military, paying taxes, clearing the snow from the sidewalk in front of your home are a few that come to mind. I do see your point about the hardship, I guess it just depends on if you see it as a duty or a forced obligation.

I agree that there is a lot that a lone juror cannot fix, on the other hand lack of participation is an absolute guaranty that the jury system will remain broken.

I remember a few men that swore their lives, fortunes and sacred honor to achieve an end, most of those men ended up impoverished BTW.

 

[1245A Defender]

well,,,

So I went this morning, the first time my car wouldnt start, put it on the charger in the heavy pouring rain,
20 minutes later I was on my way...
Went to the wrong door, it was locked, ((In fact I was so frassled that I drove thru Shelton and headed for Olympia, had to go back))
went to the other side of the building, the right door, went inside.
Told the first cop guy I saw, I need to check my handgun, he says, dont take it out...
He gets a token out of his drawer and leads me back towards the door I had just entered, their are some lockers there.
He puts the token in the locker slot and says, put your property in.
So I draw my gun, lay it in the locker, he asks about knives, I have a tiny pen knife on my key ring, so I put that in too.
He says shut the door, turn the key, put it in your pocket, and thank you!
As he put my other stuff through the detector he noticed, and we discoused my spy camera pen.
later I was asked by the judge to assure them that I would not be trying to use that to record the procedings.
Ultimatly I was tossed by the defence lawyer, and the pen cam is the only excuse I could think of.

the case was a guy caught stealing metal from a county building for recycling money, Probably for meth money!

 

[PALO]

my point is the guy with the forced conscription argument was the classic type of funhouse mirror libertarian who argues against medical mj because it's not PERFECT (iow mj legalization) despite the fact that it's part of the slippery slope, it has greatly increased access to legal MJ, and it has normalized MJ in the eyes of many (like some elderly folk) who would otherwise NEVER consider voting for outright legalization

they argue against jury duty as forced conscription, thus they should do everything to get out of it, which even if conceded arguendo... SO WHAT?

the juror still is vested with the ultimate power (trier of law AND trier of fact under the concept of jury nullification, he has both responsibilities) and this guy would actually have a chance to potentially right a moral wrong, but he's more concerned with his lofty freedom to god forbid not have to serve on jury duty. if you shirk your responsibility, somebody else WILL take your place. do you think they are better suited than you to serve? because that's the effective result of the decision

 

[Citizen]

SNIP they argue against jury duty as forced conscription, thus they should do everything to get out of it

I'll go along with the point that "forced conscription" is a good bit of reach.

I'll also say that statists who want to morally enforce jury duty on others as a social responsibility are full of hypocrisy. Just the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[JoeSparky]

So I went this morning, the first time my car wouldnt start, put it on the charger in the heavy pouring rain,
20 minutes later I was on my way...
Went to the wrong door, it was locked, ((In fact I was so frassled that I drove thru Shelton and headed for Olympia, had to go back))
went to the other side of the building, the right door, went inside.
Told the first cop guy I saw, I need to check my handgun, he says, dont take it out...
He gets a token out of his drawer and leads me back towards the door I had just entered, their are some lockers there.
He puts the token in the locker slot and says, put your property in.
So I draw my gun, lay it in the locker, he asks about knives, I have a tiny pen knife on my key ring, so I put that in too.
He says shut the door, turn the key, put it in your pocket, and thank you!
As he put my other stuff through the detector he noticed, and we discoused my spy camera pen.
later I was asked by the judge to assure them that I would not be trying to use that to record the procedings.
Ultimatly I was tossed by the defence lawyer, and the pen cam is the only excuse I could think of.

the case was a guy caught stealing metal from a county building for recycling money, Probably for meth money!

Sounds to me like the "security" handled the situation EXACTLY as it should have been handled! Polite, efficient, and respectful of the law and your rights!

 

[gogodawgs]

I'll go along with the point that "forced conscription" is a good bit of reach.

I'll also say that statists who want to morally enforce jury duty on others as a social responsibility are full of hypocrisy. Just the pot calling the kettle black.

Huh? The founders believed that it is a social responsibility.

 

[Herr Heckler Koch]

Huh? The founders believed that it is a social responsibility.

Some selected voices.

http://www.juryduty.org/quotes.htm the http is incompetent

The Founding Fathers did not speak with one voice, they were not unanimous.

 

[gogodawgs]

Some selected voices.

http://www.juryduty.org/quotes.htm the http is incompetent

The Founding Fathers did not speak with one voice, they were not unanimous.

Certainly a minority. To become the bill of rights takes 2/3 passage along with 3/4 of the states. As to English common law, history and narrative it is perceived as a social and moral responsibility.

 

[Metalhead47]

I'll go along with the point that "forced conscription" is a good bit of reach.

I'll also say that statists who want to morally enforce jury duty on others as a social responsibility are full of hypocrisy. Just the pot calling the kettle black.

Tell me citizen, as someone on here whom I respect and who generally manages to stay out of the ********, do you personally believe that the citizen in a free society does/ought/should have any duty or obligation to the State?

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Huh? The founders believed that it is a social responsibility.

They also didn't believe in forced conscription. The state shouldn't have the power to force anybody to serve on a jury.

Tell me citizen, as someone on here whom I respect and who generally manages to stay out of the ********, do you personally believe that the citizen in a free society does/ought/should have any duty or obligation to the State?

Nope. The state was created to protect individual rights. Now I may feel morally obliged to help my fellow citizens against state tyranny in its many forms.

SECTION 1 POLITICAL POWER. All political power is inherent in the people, and governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, and are established to protect and maintain individual rights.

 

[Metalhead47]

They also didn't believe in forced conscription. The state shouldn't have the power to force anybody to serve on a jury.




Nope. The state was created to protect individual rights. Now I may feel morally obliged to help my fellow citizens against state tyranny in its many forms.

I asked Citizen not you, I already knew what you'd say

 

[PALO]

I'll go along with the point that "forced conscription" is a good bit of reach.

I'll also say that statists who want to morally enforce jury duty on others as a social responsibility are full of hypocrisy. Just the pot calling the kettle black.

again, as a matter of rhetoric, i have no problem with the statement

when uses that rhetoric as an EXCUSE to do everything possible to avoid jury duty when one ALSO believes that the criminal justice system is incredibly flawed and people get convicted of stuff they shouldn't, etc. then one is a rank hypocrite piece of garbage

because when given the chance to change what one is complaining about, even if for only ONE person (defendant), they shirk their duty and hide between "oh noes it's conscription"

that's utter rubbish

 

[BurgerBoy]

I am on a grand jury right now and I feel it is my duty to help put the bad guys away and off the streets.

 

[Herr Heckler Koch]

I am on a grand jury right now and I feel it is my duty to help put the bad guys away and off the streets.

Welcome to OCDO, BurgerBoy. How do you, yourself, decide who is BadGuy and who is not? Has your state's attorney instructed you in all of the law, or in just the portion that he wants you to know? He is not bound to instruct all or even any of the truth.

Believe nothing that you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your preexisting worldview.

 

[gogodawgs]

I am on a grand jury right now and I feel it is my duty to help put the bad guys away and off the streets.

That is not your job, IMO, your job is to be the arbiter of fact and law...

It is not only [the juror's] right, but his duty...to find the verdict according to his own best understanding, judgment, and conscience, though in direct opposition to the direction of the court. ~John Adams, 1771

Jurors should acquit, even against the judge's instruction...if exercising their judgement with discretion and honesty they have a clear conviction that the charge of the court is wrong. ~Alexander Hamilton, 1804

It is presumed, that juries are the best judges of facts; it is, on the other hand, presumed that courts are the best judges of law. But still both objects are within your power of decision.....you have a right to take it upon yourselves to judge of both, and to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy. ~Chief Justice John Jay, Georgia v. Brailsford, 1794