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I have been thinking about open carry, but still undecided due to social pressure.

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
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here nc
Training is always ongoing, but I reached a milestone this morning. On my usual residential neighborhood walking route that I have kept daily for two years, where everyone knows me, occurred my first OC police stop. I knew it was going to happen sooner or later, so in addition to taking the usual carry training class, I read up on all the do's and don'ts of police contact while OC. The police contact was textbook brief, to the point and friendly. They informed me that someone called in a man walking on the street with a pistol observable in his waistband, so they were doing just a quick check and see. So, I guess police contacts while OC in Prescott are report driven.
Congratulations, but you have gotten lied to by the nice LEs in their illegal ‘papers please’ ‘quick check’ stop.

Please remember OC is unconditionally legal, yes there are prohibited locations and the public byways are not those, and AZ citizens do not need a permit to OC.

Also, there is no duty to inform the nice LEs, CC’g or especially OC’g, since the firearm is already visible for all the world to see.

Therefore, a drive by maybe, nawlll, sorry richbuff, even that action is pretentious on their part, dispatch should have advised the caller “OC is legal” and to have a nice day.

Just mark the occasion as a lesson learned and enjoy your walks.

Enjoy the holiday
 

richbuff

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Messages
23
Location
Arizona
Thank you for the info. I was on a single family residential street, no polling places, generating stations, hospitals, schools, post offices, police stations, any other government buildings, parks, airports, bars, jails, or other prohibited areas.

Nothing obtrusive or flashy, either. Not a long gun, nothing nickel plated or brushed stainless. Not a Desert Eagle or a X frame 500 S&W. Just a subdued, flat black humble plastic Glock 29 handle sticking out of the waistband of a known person who frequents the area in a daily attempt to keep 33% of his lost body weight from regaining.

Maybe next time someone reports me, police will decide that they don't have to check the box on the form that says "Made contact".

Thanks again, and happy holiday to you too.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
4,570
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
The main problem is that there is no definition of "if you see something, say something." So, the definition becomes the lowest common denominator, guns are evil, call the police.
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
Messages
35,347
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Valhalla
The main problem is that there is no definition of "if you see something, say something." So, the definition becomes the lowest common denominator, guns are evil, call the police.
IMO the main problem is the dispatcher who could through a series of Q & A eliminate many of these.

If the caller lies, then he/she should be charged.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
7,664
Location
here nc
Thank you for the info. I was on a single family residential street, no polling places, generating stations, hospitals, schools, post offices, police stations, any other government buildings, parks, airports, bars, jails, or other prohibited areas.

Nothing obtrusive or flashy, either. Not a long gun, nothing nickel plated or brushed stainless. Not a Desert Eagle or a X frame 500 S&W. Just a subdued, flat black humble plastic Glock 29 handle sticking out of the waistband of a known person who frequents the area in a daily attempt to keep 33% of his lost body weight from regaining.

Maybe next time someone reports me, police will decide that they don't have to check the box on the form that says "Made contact".

Thanks again, and happy holiday to you too.
Ah, that was the problem richbuff, the caller is a sig sauer enthusiast :uhoh:

kudos for the tenacity to continue your healthy program.
 
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Wstar425

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
560
Location
Tomahawk and Abbotsford, Wi.
I have had a few interactions with LE while open carry, tho none real recently. I believe each one there was something I said or did afterwards that I wished I had done differently. I chalk it up to a learning experience. I have yet to show ID, have my weapon taken from me, or spend a night in the brig. (I did voluntarily surrender my OC weapon at a special event to re-enter, but got it back same location, and I would not do that again)

In a perfect world the dispatcher would ask some pertinent questions that could relocate resources to genuine problems, but we might actually be getting farther from that instead of closer. Sadly. Sounds like you did just fine to me.
 
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since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
You raise some excellent points, richbuff. A bit over nine years ago, I moved to Colorado Springs.

- In the first month I lived here, I watched two bobcat traverse my parent's property withing fifty feet of where I was standing.

- In the second month, two thugs attacked myself at my apartment complex pool when I caught them stealing people's towels, sunglasses and smart phones. I dispatched one into the pool. The other hit me in the face and broke his hand (I think). Thankfully, not my face.

- In the third month, some nut made a veiled but credible threat, and he knew where I lived.

- In the fourth month, while having dinner at an outdoor restaurant near I-25, my friends and I watched a bear waltz on by and head towards a nearby creek.

- In August, I bought my own firearm and applied for a CC permit.

- In January 2010, I found this site and began thinking about OC. About a month or two later, I began OC. This brings us to your first comment:

I have been thinking a long time about open carry, but am still undecided due to elevated unsupportive social pressure.
My primary concern involved legal issues, not social pressure. However, my secondary concern involved law enforcement attitudes. I certainly didn't want any issues with the cops, regardless of whether or not OC was legal.

So, I asked them. More specifically, I asked my Neighborhood Watch point of contact. We met and discussed the issues for a few minutes. He gave me some pointers on how to avoid trouble/issues and while he did encourage me to CC, he understood the reasons behind OC.

My problem is threats that are much more commonly encountered than two legged. Four legged dangerous animals at large on the street; that is the issue for me. I walk 1,000 miles every 5.5 months in single family residential neighborhoods in a nice medium size town in Arizona. That is the average time/distance that I have an unpredictable, uncontrolled four legged dangerous threat targeting me at high velocity invading my very small/short personal defense space/time. Yes, it is very very scary.
IN 2011, around 11:30 pm, I came face to face with a cougar sniffing through the dumpster in our apartment's parking lot. I was carrying a small bag of shrimp. I left the encounter intact, but without the shrimp.

In 2013, around 1:30 AM, two wolves cruised through my parking lot at a gallop. I was OC at the time, reached, and was ready to draw. Fortunately, they loped right on by. It happened again a year later.

So, yes, I live in a location that abounds with deer, bear, bobcat, and the occasional wolf and cougar.

Concealed carry: I need a certain amount of time to get my hand on my self defense firearm. That amount of time directly translates to critical time/distance that the high velocity threat can completely close in on me before I can successfully level my defense at it.

Open carry: Smaller amounts of precious tenths of a second are needed to get ready to discharge immediately. I know that an ambush threat at much faster speed than I can evade presents a not very favorable chance of successfully defending against, even with a hand held firearm. Every tenth of a second counts when personal defense space is invaded at high velocity.
Generally speaking, if you keep your situational awareness up, four-legged animals will either give you plenty of time to draw and assess the situation, or you won't know what hit you, in which case OC won't give you much advantage. The vast majority of the time, it's the former, not the latter.

Unsupportive social pressure levels: Extremely elevated.
That may be true. I discovered, however, that I vastly overestimated the negativity by the general public. After I began OCing, I discovered that the vast majority of people just didn't care. I got about 10x to 30x the number of complements and "attaboys" as I got dirty looks. In fact, in 7 years of OC, I only received five negative comments of disapproval.

How much should I care about what family, friends and local organizations think of me if I decide to open carry?
- Family: You'll have to make that decision soley on your own.

- Friends: I think friends that are worth being friends will understand. You may still wish to keep friends who don't understand, though, as good friends are hard to find, even if you don't agree on everything. :)

- Local Organizations: You mean like the Police? Or the Rotary Club? As for the police, just ask them. Speak to several officers. I would not, however, attempt to convince them of anything. Keep it very simple: "I've considered open carry due to rapidity of access and deterrence and want to know how the department views people who open carry." When I asked that question, two of the five law enforcement officers I asked tried dissuading open carry, both with the old adage, "It's far more risky; you don't ever want to advertise that you have a firearm or the bad guys will take you out." Well, we know that's not true. Two officers were supportive, though not openly encouraging. One said something like, "Sure. A lot of people open carry. You're within your rights to do so, and you're not going to get flack from anyone on the force. Just be careful. Don't flaunt it." Two of them were pretty much, "Meh," probably thinking, "Oh, another one of those." I can't help you with the Rotary Club. :)
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
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White Oak Plantation
Our friends bear the burden. Not we the carriers. Just as cops bear the burden to not violate the law and our rights where OC is not made unlawful.
 

Wstar425

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
560
Location
Tomahawk and Abbotsford, Wi.
I open carried a smaller .380 when I first started as a means of getting the family used to it. Later I moved up to a full-sized. It doesn't hurt to dress nicely either, don't look like a slob.

Although I didn't feel the need personally, if you really want to incrementally transition from concealed to open carry, you can start with an inside the waistband holster (so only the grip is exposed) and move on from there.
I don’t have any problem with your comments, taken more as a suggestion than a command. Much as I would like to see everyone carrying a firearm have some training, I will be the last to suggest mandating it.

I’ve been known to put on clean(er) clothes for a trip into town. I’ve also jumped in the truck and run to the hardware while filthy, while OC. As I try to always be prepared for conversations about firearms, I do my best to make a better than average presentation of myself. Having said that, I try my best to not look like a slob even if I’m not carrying. If slob is your style, wear it well.

I did the IWB thing at first as well, thinking it was less noticeable while at the same time wondering about whether it was really open carry or not. I came to the conclusion that if anyone could identify it as a firearm, it was “probably” open carry. At the same time I came to the conclusion that IWB and a full size 226 Sig, didn’t really work for me, while also noticing that nobody was paying attention to me anyway, nor noticed a firearm either way. That “may” be partially because I wasn’t dressed like “a slob” but I prefer to think it was because I was at that place for a valid reason and not causing anyone any problems.

I’m dealing with a daughter right now when has done a 180 on life as she was raised, and my patience with people that are offended by “something or everything”, even an off topic part of the conversation is kinda at an all time low. So, that may reflect in my comments somewhat. Deal with it.

To the OP. I have reread most of the posts on this thread and I think my recommendation, which you may have already arrived at would be to OC on your walks and CC at the community center, to begin with. People will see you on the walks possibly, and assume or not that you are concealed the rest of the time. I’m guessing you meet less people walking than you do at the Center. You will get some interactions outside, and can explain your reason for being armed, which sounds like it should be understandable by most but the hardest core antis. It’s an ongoing learning experience.
 
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ADulay

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
488
Location
Punta Gorda, Florida, USA
That may be true. I discovered, however, that I vastly overestimated the negativity by the general public. After I began OCing, I discovered that the vast majority of people just didn't care. I got about 10x to 30x the number of complements and "attaboys" as I got dirty looks. In fact, in 7 years of OC, I only received five negative comments of disapproval.
I have also found that to be true. Most people just do not care or aren't even AWARE of the open carry.

I've also had some interesting conversations with various people about OC and the legality of it all.

AD
 

calnus

Newbie
Joined
Nov 9, 2018
Messages
4
Location
kentucky
The more we exercise our right to Open Carry the less socially awkward it is going to seem, especially when more and more of us do it.

And when people ask you can just give them your legitimate reason, and your reasoning seems very sound. There are always naysayers, don't let them push you in a corner.
 

FreedomLover

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
35
Location
Crust of Earth
Thank you for the info. I was on a single family residential street, no polling places, generating stations, hospitals, schools, post offices, police stations, any other government buildings, parks, airports, bars, jails, or other prohibited areas.

Nothing obtrusive or flashy, either. Not a long gun, nothing nickel plated or brushed stainless. Not a Desert Eagle or a X frame 500 S&W. Just a subdued, flat black humble plastic Glock 29 handle sticking out of the waistband of a known person who frequents the area in a daily attempt to keep 33% of his lost body weight from regaining.

Maybe next time someone reports me, police will decide that they don't have to check the box on the form that says "Made contact".

Thanks again, and happy holiday to you too.
Carry what you want, where you want, openly or concealed in legal manner--- I don't care! But this---- please use a holster of some sort! Too many firearm carriers have been injured or worse with a firearm that was not carried in a holster!:shocker:
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
How much should I care about what family, friends and local organizations think of me if I decide to open carry?
As much as is comfortable. Obviously, you don't want four-legged critters tearing you to shreds, but you don't want your two-legged family and friends tearing you to shreds, either. As for organizations, well... Pfffttt!

Keep it simple, unobtrusive, and straightforward. Shouldn't be much of a problem.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
7,664
Location
here nc
As much as is comfortable. Obviously, you don't want four-legged critters tearing you to shreds, but you don't want your two-legged family and friends tearing you to shreds, either. As for organizations, well... Pfffttt!

Keep it simple, unobtrusive, and straightforward. Shouldn't be much of a problem.
Alas, Since9, the OP originally posted in March 18,later bragged on the forum about killing the neighbourhood dog he bought the gun to hunt the animal down originally a few months later and hasn’t been heard from again!
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
680
Location
Kentucky
I have been thinking a long time about open carry, but am still undecided due to elevated unsupportive social pressure.

My problem is threats that are much more commonly encountered than two legged. Four legged dangerous animals at large on the street; that is the issue for me. I walk 1,000 miles every 5.5 months in single family residential neighborhoods in a nice medium size town in Arizona. That is the average time/distance that I have an unpredictable, uncontrolled four legged dangerous threat targeting me at high velocity invading my very small/short personal defense space/time. Yes, it is very very scary.

Concealed carry: I need a certain amount of time to get my hand on my self defense firearm. That amount of time directly translates to critical time/distance that the high velocity threat can completely close in on me before I can successfully level my defense at it.

Open carry: Smaller amounts of precious tenths of a second are needed to get ready to discharge immediately. I know that an ambush threat at much faster speed than I can evade presents a not very favorable chance of successfully defending against, even with a hand held firearm. Every tenth of a second counts when personal defense space is invaded at high velocity.

Unsupportive social pressure levels: Extremely elevated.

How much should I care about what family, friends and local organizations think of me if I decide to open carry?
None at all.
 
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