Bailenforcer
Regular Member
After talking to Officials in XXXXX city in Metro Detroit about the failures with the M&P this is the story.
XXXXX PD was having failure to feed problems at a rate of every fifth round. After just over 400 to 500 rounds the failures increased to a failure to feed every 3rd round and even every other round.
When Smith & Wesson heard of this they invited the Chief of Police and range officers to Smith & Wesson. At the factory S&W took right M&P's right out of production and out of 16 weapons 11 failed immediately.
The city has ordered from Glock and canceled the S&W order.
I am told the problems get far worse with rounds fired and it seems that 500 and more rounds is the approximate number where things start going south. Talking to armorers I am finding that polishing feed ramps and the standard fit and polish techniques are not fixing the problems.
The above are facts as far as I can demonstrate them, I was asked to not name names for now because this is pretty fresh information.
Now here is my subjective opinion: Being a weapons dealer for Government and Police primarily for about two decades I have found that Smith & Wesson always had a problem with their Auto pistols. Starting with the S&W model 59 and 39's. Many improvements from the 2 digit models (39, 59) to the 3 digit models (459) to the 4 digit (4507, 1006) saw some improvements but never any real world reliability. My 1006 was gone over by myself several times to get it reliable, and still I carried a S&W Custom Model 29 3 inch as a backup. ( I Owned 6 Model 29's)
I know many have them here and swear by them, but I know from experience most no competitive, or non Law Enforcement gun owners rarely hit 500 rounds fired in a months time with a weapon, and dare I say maybe 1 out of 10,000 might get close. Yea I know some will makes silly claims of 1000 rounds fired in 3 days but I know the smell of BS when I smell or read it, so spare the arm chair commando stories. I shot in national competition and know what range time is.
I would warn the M&P owners to get some serious range time in and get over 400 rounds in that weapon and see if yours is one of those that fails. And NO it doesn't take 500 rounds to fail, that was when the failures were off the hook as they say. The factory tour proved that brand new weapons were failing in a few rounds shot. There is an obvious quality control issue here and don't wait till one fails you while defending your family from a group of armed thugs, as then it's way too late for you.
Oh and please spare me the Macho pride bull$****. It is not your fault you bought a weapon that fails so it does not reflect on your manhood. Many of the defenders of certain brands act as if they were being called out for having a shortcoming in their manhood. Remembering man is NOT infallible and what he makes can fail.
Get range time and see how your favorite brand holds out in a firefight scenario.
XXXXX PD was having failure to feed problems at a rate of every fifth round. After just over 400 to 500 rounds the failures increased to a failure to feed every 3rd round and even every other round.
When Smith & Wesson heard of this they invited the Chief of Police and range officers to Smith & Wesson. At the factory S&W took right M&P's right out of production and out of 16 weapons 11 failed immediately.
The city has ordered from Glock and canceled the S&W order.
I am told the problems get far worse with rounds fired and it seems that 500 and more rounds is the approximate number where things start going south. Talking to armorers I am finding that polishing feed ramps and the standard fit and polish techniques are not fixing the problems.
The above are facts as far as I can demonstrate them, I was asked to not name names for now because this is pretty fresh information.
Now here is my subjective opinion: Being a weapons dealer for Government and Police primarily for about two decades I have found that Smith & Wesson always had a problem with their Auto pistols. Starting with the S&W model 59 and 39's. Many improvements from the 2 digit models (39, 59) to the 3 digit models (459) to the 4 digit (4507, 1006) saw some improvements but never any real world reliability. My 1006 was gone over by myself several times to get it reliable, and still I carried a S&W Custom Model 29 3 inch as a backup. ( I Owned 6 Model 29's)
I know many have them here and swear by them, but I know from experience most no competitive, or non Law Enforcement gun owners rarely hit 500 rounds fired in a months time with a weapon, and dare I say maybe 1 out of 10,000 might get close. Yea I know some will makes silly claims of 1000 rounds fired in 3 days but I know the smell of BS when I smell or read it, so spare the arm chair commando stories. I shot in national competition and know what range time is.
I would warn the M&P owners to get some serious range time in and get over 400 rounds in that weapon and see if yours is one of those that fails. And NO it doesn't take 500 rounds to fail, that was when the failures were off the hook as they say. The factory tour proved that brand new weapons were failing in a few rounds shot. There is an obvious quality control issue here and don't wait till one fails you while defending your family from a group of armed thugs, as then it's way too late for you.
Oh and please spare me the Macho pride bull$****. It is not your fault you bought a weapon that fails so it does not reflect on your manhood. Many of the defenders of certain brands act as if they were being called out for having a shortcoming in their manhood. Remembering man is NOT infallible and what he makes can fail.
Get range time and see how your favorite brand holds out in a firefight scenario.
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