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Madison banned sale of guns

Sorcice

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
381
Location
Madison, WI
I went to mc sports in Madison to look for a shoulder holster and saw the attached image on the door. Apparently grandpas gun shop is the only store in Madison that has been grandfathered in(insert irony here) since gander Mtn is outside city limits. And they are cut off after a quota is met each year.

Clarification: hand guns are banned. Long guns are still widely available.
 

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Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
ZONING CODE Sec. 28.09
28 - 91 Rev. 12/15/00
28.09 COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS.
(1) General Requirements.
(a) Permitted Uses. Permitted uses of land or buildings, as herein listed, shall be restricted to the districts indicated and under the conditions specified. No building or tract of land shall be devoted to any use other than a use permitted herein in the zoning district in which such building or tract of land shall be located, with the following exceptions:
1. Uses lawfully established on the effective date of this ordinance; and
2. Conditional uses allowed in accordance with the provisions of 28.09(1)(b) hereunder.
Uses lawfully established on the effective date of this ordinance and rendered nonconforming by the provisions thereof, shall be subject to those regulations of Section 28.05 governing nonconforming uses.

ZONING CODE 28.12 ADMINISTRATION AND ENFORCEMENT. [ ... ]
(6) Occupancy Certificates. No building or addition thereto constructed after the effective date of this ordinance shall be used for any purpose, and no addition to a previously existing building shall be occupied, and no land (except land used for garden or public recreation purposes and land without buildings or structures that is not in the Wetland District) that is vacant on the effective date of this ordinance shall be used for any purpose, until a certificate of occupancy has been issued by the office of the Zoning Administrator. No change in a use shall be made until a certificate of occupancy has been issued by the Zoning Administrator. Every certificate of occupancy shall state that the use of occupancy complies with all of the provisions of this ordinance. When applicable in flood plain areas, the Zoning Administrator shall require a certification by a registered professional engineer or architect that the finished fill, lowest floor, and flood elevations and other flood plain regulatory factors were accomplished in compliance with the provisions of this ordinance prior to issuance of a certificate of occupancy. In flood plain areas, it shall be the responsibility of the applicant to secure all other necessary permits from all appropriate Federal and Wisconsin State agencies, including those required under Sec. 404 of the Federal Water Pollution Control Act amendments of 1972, 33 United States Code 1334. (Am. by Ord. 8627, 7-2-85)
 
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MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,385
Location
in front of my computer, WI
What ever happened to preemption?
66.0409 (2)
Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.
3 talks about taxing & regulating discharge.
The only part of 4 that even remotely applies talks about construction or expansion of a range.

That being one of the few state statutes that mentions or affects firearm sales (other than the receipt delay & things like "must follow federal law"), I don't see where Madistan (or Killwaukee for that matter) has any say in what lawful, legal goods are sold within their boundries.

Since they're using zoning regulations as a back-door control over sales, obviously it's illegal.
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
Once again, §66.0409 is toothless and only a distraction. No one has cited, that I recall, ever, an action under Wisconsin state firearms preemption.
 

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Once again, §66.0409 is toothless and only a distraction. No one has cited, that I recall, ever, an action under Wisconsin state firearms preemption.

I wouldn't say that it's entirely toothless. There have been a number of municipalities that have backed down in the face of 66.0409 without taking them to court.

re: Madison, here is the zoning ordinance, complete with typical Madison paranoia. Not surprisingly enacted just after the state preemption statute took effect. (What is now 66.0409 was enacted in November 1995, Madison's zoning ordinance January 1996.)

Handgun shop, subject to the following conditions:
Sec. 28.10(4)(c)59.a. ZONING CODE
Rev. 6/15/11 28 - 118h
a. Such shop shall be located in a building of Type 5 construction as
defined in Wis. Admin. Code § ILHR 51.03(5).
b. No handgun shop shall be located within 1000 feet of any church,
synagogue, temple, mosque or any other place of worship, any lot in a
residence district, either in the City of Madison or in a municipality
adjacent to the City of Madison, any of the following planned
developments which allow residential dwelling units: planned
community development, planned unit development, and planned
community mobile home parks; any public park, any private or public
elementary, secondary or vocational school, any public or private
playground, any day care center, any public library, any youth recreation
area including little league baseball fields, soccer fields, or
YMCA/YWCA.
c. No handgun shop shall be located in the same detached building where
alcohol beverages are sold.
d. No handgun shop shall be located in the same detached building where
any patron thereof under the age of 18 years may enter, unless
accompanied by a parent, guardian or adult spouse 18 years of age or
over.
(Cr. by Ord. 11,506, 1-26-96)
 
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MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,385
Location
in front of my computer, WI
No handgun shop shall be located within 1000 feet of...
Because of course that will
a) stop criminals from taking a gun to any of those places
b) stop criminals from unlawfully using a gun in any of those places
If a criminal can get to a shop that's 3 blocks from anywhere, they can get back to wherever they came from once they have the pistol in their slimy little hands (or underwear).

I'd say that zoning ordinance should be challenged using the same rationale as the "GF"SZ challenge:
it is so broad in its effect that it forcloses any meaningful exercise of lawful commerce in firearms.

Has anyone ever made a city map marking off all those "gun shop free zones", to show where, if anywhere, one would still be allowed? Maybe that should be the object of a FOIA request for the zoning department...

Also, how can they claim the right to regulate how many items a store sells in a given time period? What are the limits on tires, cars, baseball bats, or bottles of alcohol, all of which harm people in various ways?
 
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Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Because of course that will
a) stop criminals from taking a gun to any of those places
b) stop criminals from unlawfully using a gun in any of those places
If a criminal can get to a shop that's 3 blocks from anywhere, they can get back to wherever they came from once they have the pistol in their slimy little hands (or underwear).

I'd say that zoning ordinance should be challenged using the same rationale as the "GF"SZ challenge:
it is so broad in its effect that it forcloses any meaningful exercise of lawful commerce in firearms.

Has anyone ever made a city map marking off all those "gun shop free zones", to show where, if anywhere, one would still be allowed? Maybe that should be the object of a FOIA request for the zoning department...

Also, how can they claim the right to regulate how many items a store sells in a given time period? What are the limits on tires, cars, baseball bats, or bottles of alcohol, all of which harm people in various ways?

No no no, they're not concerned with what criminals could do. They're concerned with what law-abiding people can do. And they're concerned about those guns that magically load and shoot themselves around daycare centers, churches and parks. (it's "for the children.")

They do regulate "adult book stores" too, I guess. But the only one in the city is mostly surrounded by a residential neighborhood, has an elementary school 500 feet away and a church almost next door.
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
This is an interesting excert on how the Madison police department viewed 66.0409 in Spring of 2011. It came from the Madison police department web site titled Legal Update. It apparently is done under authority of Captain Victor Whal.

Firearms Ordinances
Over the years, the City has enacted a number of firearms
related ordinances, most located in chapter 25 of the
Madison General Ordinances.
In 1995, the State Legislature enacted §66.0409 (Local
regulation of firearms). This statute prohibits local bodies of
government (cities, towns, villages, counties) from enacting
most ordinances related to firearms if the ordinance is more
restrictive than state law. The relevant portion states:
…no political subdivision may enact an ordinance or adopt
a resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, purchase
delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession,
bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or
taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including
ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance
or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more
stringent than, a state statute.
So, while these ordinances remain on the books, most of
them (prohibiting the sale of firearms, prohibiting the
possession of short-barreled handguns, prohibiting the
possession of assault weapons, etc) are unenforceable.
Officers should not take enforcement action for these
ordinances.


The emphasis is mine.

http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/LegalUpdates.cfm
 
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H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
This is an interesting excert on how the Madison police department viewed 66.0409 in Spring of 2011. It came from the Madison police department web site titled Legal Update. It apparently is done under authority of Captain Victor Whal. [ ... ] So, while these ordinances remain on the books, most of them (prohibiting the sale of firearms, prohibiting the possession of short-barreled handguns, prohibiting the possession of assault weapons, etc) are unenforceable.
Officers should not take enforcement action for these ordinances. The emphasis is mine.

http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/LegalUpdates.cfm
Now, what recourse has a law abiding citizen that may be the victim of an officer's capricious enforcement actions? What is his recourse before and after the ride and the rap.

Is that attitude common across the state, that officers pick and choose which ordinances are enforced?
 

9026543

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
509
Location
Southern MO
Damn, I thought we had some screwed up laws in MO but I do believe WI and more so the city of Madison takes the cake.
 

rcav8r

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Messages
252
Location
Stoughton, WI
The zoning ordinance is there simply because nobody has legally challenged it. Years ago, I even asked gander mtn. about it (before they moved), and even they didn't want to do the legal fight.

MC sports probably could be grandfathered in, but then I'm guessing their lawyers think they won't be since they opened that store after the the 1996 zoning ordinance, or they just didn't want to spend the money to fight it for a niche market.

This ordinance needs someone with standing (a store owner that could sell handguns) and money to fight it.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,857
Location
Granite State of Mind
Reading between the lines and behind the scenes, I see the zoning ordinance as some gee-aren't-I-clever lawyer arguing that, no, Madison is not violating preemption, because they're not banning or regulating the sale of guns. They're merely using their zoning to make sure "handgun shops" fit into appropriate neighborhoods, just as they regulate liquor outlets and junkyards.
 

TyGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
775
Location
, ,
Snark on

Wah wah wah I live in Wisconsin where I can OC and CC wah wah wan

Snark off

- try being a fib in the only state with NO carry whatsoever
 
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