• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

OCer arrested in Smyrna TN

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,170
Location
earth's crust
Tenn Statue 39-17-1351 (n)(1) applies?

(n) (1) Except as provided in subdivision (n)(2), a permit issued pursuant to this section shall be good for four (4) years and shall entitle the permit holder to carry any handgun or handguns that the permit holder legally owns or possesses. The permit holder shall have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun and shall display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer.


Video shows a refusal to show permit, yes?

Arrested for unlawfully carry? No, I don't see that charge sticking. Does TN have an interference statue? That may apply.

Motion to strike the information if they charged with unlawful carry?

Otherwise you got the defense that all gun laws are void and/or the argument that the "shall" is directory in nature v. mandatory and the 4th amendment and 5th amendment defenses.

or argue that the circumstances did not involve any safety issue ...
 
Last edited:

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,667
Location
here nc
the video's main actor seems to have forgotten about keeping your mouth shut...horribly failed to keep quiet.

last shot of being manhandled was a nice touch...

any idea what happened to the individual?

ipse

added...thanks for the reference to TN's statute
 
Last edited:

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,021
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Published on Jun 25, 2016On Friday june 24th, 2016 I was at a McDonald's in Smyrna ,TN when I was stopped on my way out by one of Smyrna's finest because someone called the police because I was openly carrying a handgun on my hip around children. After being told that I would not give any information without probable cause, I was slammed into my car and arrested for "unlawfully carrying a firearm" even though I DO have a permit.
Are you quoting the guy in the video (which you don't make clear if it's the case) or are YOU the guy in the video?

Isn't TN an "OC only with a permit" state? I would think that one would have to present their permit when asked if so.

edited to add: the guy in the video gives OCers a bad name. He could have said all he said, said very little, or said nothing and avoided sounding like a jerk.
 
Last edited:

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,170
Location
earth's crust
Are you quoting the guy in the video (which you don't make clear if it's the case) or are YOU the guy in the video?

Isn't TN an "OC only with a permit" state? I would think that one would have to present their permit when asked if so.

edited to add: the guy in the video gives OCers a bad name. He could have said all he said, said very little, or said nothing and avoided sounding unlike a jerk.
Even in commieland CT ... a cop cannot demand to see a permit on demand ... a bill introduced last session to this point failed to pass.

The guy in the video did OK...
 
Last edited:

cjohnson44546

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Messages
188
Location
Memphis, TN
Even in commieland CT ... a cop cannot demand to see a permit on demand ... a bill introduced last session to this point failed to pass.

The guy in the video did OK...
in TN any police officer can demand to see a carry permit and you must show, or be arrested for carrying. They ask, you show, no one gets arrested. IN the video the OCer was arrested because he did break the law.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,336
Location
Valhalla
Even in commieland CT ... a cop cannot demand to see a permit on demand ... a bill introduced last session to this point failed to pass.

The guy in the video did OK...
in TN any police officer can demand to see a carry permit and you must show, or be arrested for carrying. They ask, you show, no one gets arrested. IN the video the OCer was arrested because he did break the law.
39-17-1351
"The permit holder shall have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun and shall display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer."
 
Last edited:

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
Tenn Statue 39-17-1351 (n)(1) applies?

(n) (1) Except as provided in subdivision (n)(2), a permit issued pursuant to this section shall be good for four (4) years and shall entitle the permit holder to carry any handgun or handguns that the permit holder legally owns or possesses. The permit holder shall have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun and shall display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer.


Video shows a refusal to show permit, yes?

Arrested for unlawfully carry? No, I don't see that charge sticking. Does TN have an interference statue? That may apply.

Motion to strike the information if they charged with unlawful carry?

Otherwise you got the defense that all gun laws are void and/or the argument that the "shall" is directory in nature v. mandatory and the 4th amendment and 5th amendment defenses.

or argue that the circumstances did not involve any safety issue ...
They discuss this section of code in the video comments.

If there is such a law, it is blatantly unconstitutional, but, I guess that goes without saying. I would also be curious to know if there is actually any violation/offense related to this section, or if it may just be ineffective remnants like Texas' GC 411.205.

I would think that one would have to present their permit when asked if so.
That's what they want you to think, for sure.
 

TXOC16

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
111
Location
USA
in TN any police officer can demand to see a carry permit and you must show, or be arrested for carrying. They ask, you show, no one gets arrested. IN the video the OCer was arrested because he did break the law.
There were no specific and articulable facts, no reasonable suspicion, and definitely no probable cause that a crime had been, was being, or was about to be committed. Thus, this was clearly yet another unconstitutional Terry stop, which until they are finally adjudicated in every Federal District, appear to still be the pitiful default in a number of states. Of course, since the tyrants are playing with our money, there's no real incentive to play by the rules, otherwise known as the U.S. Constitution.

Kudos to the citizen, sovereign or otherwise, who resisted the arrogant tyrants.
 

ericcris10sen

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2016
Messages
25
Location
Hurricane, Utah
The problem is the guy didn't need to be one of these a-holes on youtube trying to prove how crooked and stupid cops are. He COULD have just showed his permit and everyone would have been happy. The officers were called to the scene by a nervous or scared person and so they need to investigate it. The idiot then goes on about saying how he's been carrying for so and so amount of years and he's not a criminal or fugitive or anything of that sort, yet the police don't know that. I mean, it's not like the police get lied to on a daily basis or anything. So instead of doing the RIGHT thing and show them his permit, he tries this route and I'm very very happy to see him get handcuffed. Like someone said. These people give us a bad name.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,336
Location
Valhalla
The problem is the guy didn't need to be one of these a-holes on youtube trying to prove how crooked and stupid cops are. He COULD have just showed his permit and everyone would have been happy. The officers were called to the scene by a nervous or scared person and so they need to investigate it. The idiot then goes on about saying how he's been carrying for so and so amount of years and he's not a criminal or fugitive or anything of that sort, yet the police don't know that. I mean, it's not like the police get lied to on a daily basis or anything. So instead of doing the RIGHT thing and show them his permit, he tries this route and I'm very very happy to see him get handcuffed. Like someone said. These people give us a bad name.
That's an expensive way to go.

IMO, better to educate and avoid the unnecessary.
 

TXOC16

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
111
Location
USA
The problem is the guy didn't need to be one of these a-holes on youtube trying to prove how crooked and stupid cops are. He COULD have just showed his permit and everyone would have been happy. The officers were called to the scene by a nervous or scared person and so they need to investigate it. The idiot then goes on about saying how he's been carrying for so and so amount of years and he's not a criminal or fugitive or anything of that sort, yet the police don't know that. I mean, it's not like the police get lied to on a daily basis or anything. So instead of doing the RIGHT thing and show them his permit, he tries this route and I'm very very happy to see him get handcuffed. Like someone said. These people give us a bad name.
Yeah, better that he should probably have just gotten down on his knees and licked the boots of the tyrants, after, of course, showing his papers.

News flash, "nervous and scared" does not equate to specific and articulable facts, reasonable suspicion, nor probable cause. As a matter of fact, the police don't know that you aren't committing a crime at this very moment. Do you suppose they should have the authority to kick down your door to ensure that no crime is being committed? After all, since they don't know, it's okay, right?

And I can assure you that those who are giving "us" a bad name are definitely not the ones who regularly exercise their God-given, Constitutionally enumerated rights, but rather are those who appear somewhat ignorant of the same and appear to be entirely comfortable with submission to the tyranny.
 

ericcris10sen

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2016
Messages
25
Location
Hurricane, Utah
Yeah, better that he should probably have just gotten down on his knees and licked the boots of the tyrants, after, of course, showing his papers.

News flash, "nervous and scared" does not equate to specific and articulable facts, reasonable suspicion, nor probable cause. As a matter of fact, the police don't know that you aren't committing a crime at this very moment. Do you suppose they should have the authority to kick down your door to ensure that no crime is being committed? After all, since they don't know, it's okay, right?

And I can assure you that those who are giving "us" a bad name are definitely not the ones who regularly exercise their God-given, Constitutionally enumerated rights, but rather are those who appear somewhat ignorant of the same and appear to be entirely comfortable with submission to the tyranny.
Ahh I was wondering when I was going to meet you kind of people on here. Yes, police are tyrants. Yes of course. They're out there to get everyone. They don't care about civilians. They're horrible, horrible people! Boo hoo!

News flash. When someone calls in something like this and they need to investigate the situation, I don't see ANYTHING wrong with them asking to see whether or not he has a permit. They aren't being a-holes. They aren't asking you to be submissive. They're just making sure that you are allowed to carry. And how the HELL is someone asking for your carry permit the same as kicking down someones door? Are you seriously this stupid? If someone calls the police saying there's something suspicious going on at my house or that something is happening at my house that is scary, yes, I sure as HELL do want them to come and investigate it. You don't know if I'm in trouble or someone is casing my house. That's what the HELL they're supposed to do.

I guarantee you're one of those a-holes that go around acting in such a fashion being a complete jerk to law enforcement because they're trying to do their job. Tyranny. Give a me a fricken break. Asking for their carry permit is being oppressive. Go to Cuba or North Korea if you want to see a tyrannical government. Ffs. Kids these days. I'm done talking to you.
 
Last edited:

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,170
Location
earth's crust
Ahh I was wondering when I was going to meet you kind of people on here. Yes, police are tyrants. Yes of course. They're out there to get everyone. They don't care about civilians. They're horrible, horrible people! Boo hoo!

News flash. When someone calls in something like this and they need to investigate the situation, I don't see ANYTHING wrong with them asking to see whether or not he has a permit. They aren't being a-holes. They aren't asking you to be submissive. They're just making sure that you are allowed to carry. And how the HELL is someone asking for your carry permit the same as kicking down someones door? Are you seriously this stupid? If someone calls the police saying there's something suspicious going on at my house or that something is happening at my house that is scary, yes, I sure as HELL do want them to come and investigate it. You don't know if I'm in trouble or someone is casing my house. That's what the HELL they're supposed to do.

I guarantee you're one of those a-holes that go around acting in such a fashion being a complete jerk to law enforcement because they're trying to do their job. Tyranny. Give a me a fricken break. Asking for their carry permit is being oppressive. Go to Cuba or North Korea if you want to see a tyrannical government. Ffs. Kids these days. I'm done talking to you.
What if they passed a law saying that your toilet needs to be colored blue and that they have the right to enter your house to check. You gonna let them in?

See, you cannot make a law that violates another.

The 4th amendment should prevail here.

Being a jerk is not a crime.

Asking to see a permit it not oppressive by itself and in that context only. Stopping someone in their travels and demanding is.

The cops are not a-holes but just doing their job which apparently includes forgetting the 4th amendment. And remember .. the 4th amendment presumes that any seizure is unlawful w/o a warrant...no warrant here and your arguments don't make it over this 4th amendment hurdle.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/menu/CommDocTmyBillAllComm.asp?bill=HB-05408&doc_year=2016

^^ read the recent testimony about the CT bill to require showing a permit ....

See all the lizzurds that out themselves by saying that this is OK ... and the others who opposed the bill
 
Last edited:

TXOC16

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
111
Location
USA
Ahh I was wondering when I was going to meet you kind of people on here.

Yeah, "you kind [sic]," as in clearly more educated, articulate, experienced, knowledgeable, and Constitution-loving than "you kind."

The remainder of your "response" is so poorly written and is so lacking in any kind of logic or reason that it's really not even worthy of a response.
 
Top