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Open carry in the Detroit Casino's

Jared

Regular Member
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Jul 8, 2006
Messages
901
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Michigan, USA
I don't ever remember this being discussed; however, it does not appear that the carrying of firearms can be completely prohibited at the Detroit casino's.

28.425o states...

(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.

and we all know that 750.234d exempt permit holders.

It appears that the Michigan administrative code can prohibit only concealed carry, but they can't prohibit open carry.

I would also think that since the three casino's are city owned, they are not private property, so they can't restrict possession.

Any thoughts.
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,489
Location
Portage, MI
I don't ever remember this being discussed; however, it does not appear that the carrying of firearms can be completely prohibited at the Detroit casino's.

28.425o states...

(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.

and we all know that 750.234d exempt permit holders.

It appears that the Michigan administrative code can prohibit only concealed carry, but they can't prohibit open carry.

I would also think that since the three casino's are city owned, they are not private property, so they can't restrict possession.

Any thoughts.
Interesting.........but it is my understanding the casino's are privately owned.
 

budlight

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
455
Location
Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
Take a look at the statute it is referring to below. It bans any type of carry except for LEOs and Armored Car personnel.

432.1212 Weapons in casino.
Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:
(a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
(c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.
(2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.
(3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.”
 

Jared

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Jul 8, 2006
Messages
901
Location
Michigan, USA
Take a look at the statute it is referring to below. It bans any type of carry except for LEOs and Armored Car personnel.

432.1212 Weapons in casino.
Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:
(a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
(c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.
(2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.
(3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.”

True; however, 28.425o says you may not carry a concealed pistol in violation of these rules. It appears that these rules are only enforceable for concealed carry. I don't think these rules would apply for an unconcealed pistol.

Still not 100% sure what to make of this.
 

budlight

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Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
455
Location
Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
True; however, 28.425o says you may not carry a concealed pistol in violation of these rules. It appears that these rules are only enforceable for concealed carry. I don't think these rules would apply for an unconcealed pistol.

Still not 100% sure what to make of this.
In my opinion this means that you cannot carry concealed in violation of 432.1212. Some LEOs and private investigators have CPLs that are EXEMPT from carry restrictions….aka Pistol Free Zones. I take this as to mean their CPL is NOT exempt from Casinos. 432.1212 doesn't mention concealed carry, it simply states the carrying of a firearm so I think this would trump any other statute unless there was another that specifically said certain persons were except from carrying a firearm on these types of premises. I don’t know of any other statute that says a person licensed by the state is exempt from statutes pertaining to Casinos. Other statutes on the books either state concealed carry, which doesn’t prohibit open carry, or cover possession itself without a CPL.
 

Yance

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
578
Location
Battle Creek, MI
I'm going to go ahead and say its one of those MCLs that talks in a circle and a prosecutor will get you for it. kind of like the MSP legal update 86 which states "a pistol is concealed even if it is partially concealed" but also states a pistol is considered open carry if "it can be recognized by the casual observer" So its saying you cant use an IWB holster but also saying you can use an IWB holster. love those gray areas...
 

Bronson

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Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,157
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
True; however, 28.425o says you may not carry a concealed pistol in violation of these rules.
True but R 432.1212 states you may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino. So if you carried openly you wouldn't be in violation of MCL 28.425o but you would still be in violation of R 432.1212.

Bronson
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,337
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
True but R 432.1212 states you may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino. So if you carried openly you wouldn't be in violation of MCL 28.425o but you would still be in violation of R 432.1212.

Bronson
This is true. But, laws such as this have been deemed "unconstitutional" under the equal protection clause elsewhere, just not here. I think it was the 9th District Federal Appeals Court that said gun laws that exempt retired LEOs or off- duty reserves are unconstitutional under the "equal protection clause" because they treat people in similar circumstances differently. They did say that laws that exempt on-duty LEOs are OK, as they actually have a job-related need. I'll post the relevant citation when I can use my computer rather than my phone.
 

Bronson

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Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,157
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Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
...the 9th District Federal Appeals Court that said gun laws that exempt retired LEOs or off- duty reserves are unconstitutional under the "equal protection clause" because they treat people in similar circumstances differently.
I guess I don't follow you. I don't see where R 432.1212 exempts either retired LEOs or reserves. It may exempt off duty LEOs.

Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:

(a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as
defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.


(c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured
areas.

(2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino
shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.

(3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.


28.602

(l) "Police officer" or "law enforcement officer" means, unless the context requires otherwise, any of the following:

(i) A regularly employed member of a law enforcement agency authorized and established pursuant to law, including common law, who is responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the enforcement of the general criminal laws of this state. Police officer or law enforcement officer does not include a person serving solely because he or she occupies any other office or position.

(ii) A law enforcement officer of a Michigan Indian tribal police force, subject to the limitations set forth in section 9(3).

(iii) The sergeant at arms or any assistant sergeant at arms of either house of the legislature who is commissioned as a police officer by that respective house of the legislature as provided by the legislative sergeant at arms police powers act, 2001 PA 185, MCL 4.381 to 4.382.

(iv) A law enforcement officer of a multicounty metropolitan district, subject to the limitations of section 9(7).

(v) A county prosecuting attorney's investigator sworn and fully empowered by the sheriff of that county.

(vi) Until December 31, 2007, a law enforcement officer of a school district in this state that has a membership of at least 20,000 pupils and that includes in its territory a city with a population of at least 180,000 as of the most recent federal decennial census.

(vii) A fire arson investigator from a fire department within a city with a population of not less than 750,000 who is sworn and fully empowered by the city chief of police.
Bronson

 
Last edited:

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
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Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,337
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
I guess I don't follow you. I don't see where R 432.1212 exempts either retired LEOs or reserves. It may exempt off duty LEOs.



28.602



Bronson

My error Bronson. I was referring to the general exemption to the 28.425o Zones as found in that section regarding CPLs, but I posted it in a response to a post specifically regarding R 432.1212. You are correct that even those individuals exempt from the areas listed under 28.425o would still be violating R 432.1212.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,337
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Ok. I thought I had missed some key piece of info :lol:

Bronson
No, I made the mistake of reading that handy little cpl "cheat-sheet" the MSP produced stating that you can carry in a casino if your CPL is marked "exempt"... then I erroneously applied all of the restrictions lumped together, just as the MSP did, which is actually incorrect. But, what I stated above does hold true, in my opinion, for everything other than the casino restrictions found in MCL 28.425o and the court restrictions found in Administrative Order 2001-1 of the Michigan Supreme Court.
 
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