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Open carrying a non-functional replica

MikeLovell

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
88
Location
Illinois
This is not something I'm planning to do. But I'm just interested as an intellectual exercise.
Maybe it's a potential form of protest for open carry.

  • I take a non-functional replica of a gun (doesn't even fire blanks, barrel is sealed).
  • I put it in a holster and walk around publicly with it carried openly.
What law(s) am I breaking, and why?
 

Superlite27

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,277
Location
God's Country, Missouri
This is not something I'm planning to do. But I'm just interested as an intellectual exercise.
Maybe it's a potential form of protest for open carry.

  • I take a non-functional replica of a gun (doesn't even fire blanks, barrel is sealed).
  • I put it in a holster and walk around publicly with it carried openly.
What law(s) am I breaking, and why?
I don't know about any laws, but carrying a nonfunctional firearm is one of the most stupid maneuvers any Darwin Award candidate could possibly cook up.

This isn't the first time I've encountered this moronic idea. It has been discussed ever since fake guns were invented. Other than toys for children, the purpose of a fake gun has never been explained to me to any degree of satisfaction. (Other than to purposefully get one's self killed.)

I assume that a fake gun would be used as a "bluff". (?)

If so, what does a person do in the event this "bluff" gets called?

Pull their fake gun and yell "BANG!" as loudly as possible in the hope that sheer volume can stop the bullets coming from the real gun used to call the bluff?

Because that fake gun sure won't stop them.

The purpose of a weapon is to provide the means with which to protect one's self. It provides an ability.

The purpose of a fake weapon is to provide the appearance of protection. It provides an illusion.

Only an idiot would purposefully trade a bona-fide abilty for illusory appearance.

Especially concerning matters regarding potentially lethal consequences.

Toys are best left to children. If a person wishes to defend his self, he should do so. If a person wishes to bluff, he should stick to card games. That way, when the bluff gets called, all a person loses is their money.
 
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JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,623
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
This is not something I'm planning to do. But I'm just interested as an intellectual exercise.
Maybe it's a potential form of protest for open carry.

  • I take a non-functional replica of a gun (doesn't even fire blanks, barrel is sealed).
  • I put it in a holster and walk around publicly with it carried openly.
What law(s) am I breaking, and why?
I don't know about Illinois, but other states have very burdensome laws against PHONY guns, even worse than those they have for ACTUAL firearms! I could surprise one!
 

MikeLovell

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
88
Location
Illinois
Only an idiot would purposefully trade a bona-fide abilty for illusory appearance.
I never said anything about trading. You can continue to carry a real weapon at the same time.


But that didn't answer my question (regarding law)...

... And was rather rude and abusive - Which isn't helpful. :rolleyes:
 

MikeLovell

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
88
Location
Illinois
I don't know about Illinois, but other states have very burdensome laws against PHONY guns, even worse than those they have for ACTUAL firearms! I could surprise one!
Go on, please do :)

I've never considered doing such a thing, I mean who would? I just wondered what would happen.

A "what if"
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
Some years back a activist in Illinois carried a empty holster on a campus and was arrested. I can't see a fake gun in a holster going over any better.
 

MikeLovell

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
88
Location
Illinois
Some years back a activist in Illinois carried a empty holster on a campus and was arrested. I can't see a fake gun in a holster going over any better.
Really? Can you remember what law he broke?

I do actually walk around with an empty holster sometimes. I live right on the Wisconsin border so I open carry there, then I came down to Gurnee to do some shopping.

The gun (P226) is way too big to conceal in summer attire, so I had to leave it in the car. But I had my SERPA paddle holster (empty) on and visible.


That's another concern then, as I sometimes walk around with loaded magazines visible. I wonder what generic "catch all" charge they're using.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
Really? Can you remember what law he broke?

I do actually walk around with an empty holster sometimes. I live right on the Wisconsin border so I open carry there, then I came down to Gurnee to do some shopping.

The gun (P226) is way too big to conceal in summer attire, so I had to leave it in the car. But I had my SERPA paddle holster (empty) on and visible.


That's another concern then, as I sometimes walk around with loaded magazines visible. I wonder what generic "catch all" charge they're using.
I believe he was charged with DC. Shaun Kranish was arrested several times for several different charges and events. The one for DC? I believe was early in his activism.

A few weeks ago we wrote to you about Shaun Kranish and his efforts to start another gun rights organization in Illinois, ICARRY.ORG. We welcome youth and vigor to the movement. Well now Shaun has his first taste of the war as he has been arrested at Rock Valley College in Rockford, Illinois for carrying an empty fanny pack. Shaun tells his story below, but essentially Shaun disagrees with the College's policy on self-defense. Therefore, Shaun wanted to speak to the President of the school, but was referred to the campus public safety office (aka d'uh cops.)

http://gunowners.org/op0545.htm
 
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MikeLovell

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
88
Location
Illinois
Many states (most?) have laws allowing for self-defense against the perception that one is facing emanate serious bodily harm or death from what turns out to be a non-functioning or fake gun - google is your friend.

Also this -
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/5001
Surely anything holstered wouldn't demonstrate serious bodily threat?

The natural assumption, from what I hear from OC'ers who have been approached, is of an undercover cop.
 

arentol

New member
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
383
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
Really? Can you remember what law he broke?

I do actually walk around with an empty holster sometimes. I live right on the Wisconsin border so I open carry there, then I came down to Gurnee to do some shopping.

The gun (P226) is way too big to conceal in summer attire, so I had to leave it in the car. But I had my SERPA paddle holster (empty) on and visible.


That's another concern then, as I sometimes walk around with loaded magazines visible. I wonder what generic "catch all" charge they're using.
Many state and federal laws define ANY portion of a firearm as being a firearm. So if carrying a firearm is illegal then chances are carrying those magazines or the ammunition in them is illegal. I would suggest checking the laws of the state you are visiting in detail before removing your disarm but retaining your magazines.
 

MikeLovell

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
88
Location
Illinois
Disorder conduct:

(720 ILCS 5/26-1) Illinois Compiled Statutes
(a) A person commits disorderly conduct when he or she knowingly:
(1) Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to

alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace;
It is unreasonable to carry additional (visible) ammunition for a concealed firearm?

(430 ILCS 65/) Firearm Owners Identification Card Act.
"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however: [...]
It doesn't appear to cover a magazine, or bullets. The prohibition is specifically regarding guns.

(720 ILCS 5/24-1) Illinois Compiled Statutes
(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed

on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions: [...]

It's that damn disorderly conduct that's the kicker. Nothing else seems to prohibit a loaded magazine or an empty holster.
 
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RU serious

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
47
Location
TEXAS
But that didn't answer my question (regarding law)...

... And was rather rude and abusive - Which isn't helpful. :rolleyes:
So far the most common responses to my posts have been essentially combative, which is why I don't come around here much.
 

MikeLovell

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
88
Location
Illinois
I believe he was charged with DC. Shaun Kranish was arrested several times for several different charges and events. The one for DC? I believe was early in his activism.

A few weeks ago we wrote to you about Shaun Kranish and his efforts to start another gun rights organization in Illinois, ICARRY.ORG. We welcome youth and vigor to the movement. Well now Shaun has his first taste of the war as he has been arrested at Rock Valley College in Rockford, Illinois for carrying an empty fanny pack. Shaun tells his story below, but essentially Shaun disagrees with the College's policy on self-defense. Therefore, Shaun wanted to speak to the President of the school, but was referred to the campus public safety office (aka d'uh cops.)

http://gunowners.org/op0545.htm
Looks like this. And after this a few years later "unlawful use of a weapon" for using a modified holster that was contained and carrying an unloaded gun in it.

Charges were dropped on both, looks like he got a civil settlement out of them too.
 

junglebob

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
361
Location
Southern Illinois, Illinois, USA
Many state and federal laws define ANY portion of a firearm as being a firearm. So if carrying a firearm is illegal then chances are carrying those magazines or the ammunition in them is illegal. I would suggest checking the laws of the state you are visiting in detail before removing your disarm but retaining your magazines.
You can transport a unloaded gun along with a loaded magazine in the same case and be within the law, in Illinois. When transporting in a fanny pack or similar case it was called "container transport" also referred to as "6 seconds to safety" I did it for about 8 years until getting my carry license this year.
 
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