Pulled over with ccl

[911Boss]

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Rizzin wrote:

Something close enough to this happened to me while carrying I figured I would share.

Couple of years back I was on my way home from a road trip to Ca. to see family. I had just crossed back into Wa. and was stopped by WaSP for speeding. Office either missed seeing my weapon holstered at the small of my back when I reached for my Registration information or waited until I again reached over to put it back into the glovebox to comment on my weapon. I was told I should have informed him I was armed to which I replied I was not required to offer him any information but was happy and willing to answer any questions he wanted to ask. I at that point offered to show him my CPL which he declined but told me that if it had been a younger less experienced office in his place I very well could have found myself being ordered out of my vehicle and onto the ground at gun point. I no longer remember if I told him or just thought the response of "then he would be in the wrong" after this amount of time.


So to the OP as others have said no legal requirement to inform LEO of a CPL or weapon unless asked.

And as 911Boss wrote if you do it can create a negative encounter, but so can not offering the info.

For me, If my weapon is on my person and I am asked to exit my vehicle then I would inform otherwise I will only inform if they ask me about weapons.


Either approach can cause a negative encounter with LEO's but either approach can cause an encounter to be a non-issue. It will be up to you and your reading of each encounter and those involved as to which approach will less likely cause it to be a negative encounter.
Something close enough to this happened to me while carrying I figured I would share.

Couple of years back I was on my way home from a road trip to Ca. to see family. I had just crossed back into Wa. and was stopped by WaSP for speeding. Office either missed seeing my weapon holstered at the small of my back when I reached for my Registration information or waited until I again reached over to put it back into the glovebox to comment on my weapon. I was told I should have informed him I was armed to which I replied I was not required to offer him any information but was happy and willing to answer any questions he wanted to ask. I at that point offered to show him my CPL which he declined but told me that if it had been a younger less experienced office in his place I very well could have found myself being ordered out of my vehicle and onto the ground at gun point. I no longer remember if I told him or just thought the response of "then he would be in the wrong" after this amount of time.


So to the OP as others have said no legal requirement to inform LEO of a CPL or weapon unless asked.

And as 911Boss wrote if you do it can create a negative encounter, but so can not offering the info.

For me, If my weapon is on my person and I am asked to exit my vehicle then I would inform otherwise I will only inform if they ask me about weapons.


Either approach can cause a negative encounter with LEO's but either approach can cause an encounter to be a non-issue. It will be up to you and your reading of each encounter and those involved as to which approach will less likely cause it to be a negative encounter.

Whoa, Deja Vu!!! ...

 

[Rizzin]

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doh, I guess thats what I get for not being more careful with outside spell checking and copy/paste

 

[Citizen]

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udy wrote:

Hi I am new here. I read here from time to time, thought I would join up finally. I see bear says it is not required by law. This is interesting to me since I was told other wise when I got my CCW permit from Clark county. I live in Oregon but got a Washington permit about 4 years ago. I will dig up the paper they gave me that said that. I know it is not an Oregon law.

Welcome to OCDO!

 

[Citizen]

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udy wrote:

Hi I am new here. I read here from time to time, thought I would join up finally. I see bear says it is not required by law. This is interesting to me since I was told other wise when I got my CCW permit from Clark county. I live in Oregon but got a Washington permit about 4 years ago. I will dig up the paper they gave me that said that. I know it is not an Oregon law.

Welcome to OCDO!

 

[jddssc121]

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http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/14518.html

I had a similar experience not too long ago. The 1st trooper showed a good deal of trust my leaving me alone with the second trooper and leaving the scene.

I feel it's just the polite thing to do. If it were reversed, I would want to know.....

 

[Citizen]

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

SNIP They tend to be nervous and if he happens to see you gun, well it is not fun looking down the barrel of a very nervous and adrenalin pumped cop.

Good point. Nobody wants that. Afew cop safetyrules will solve it:

1. Always assume the cop is loaded.

2. Never point your cop at something you do not intend to destroy.

3. Always be sure of your target and what is beyond beforedischarging your cop at it.

4. Keep your finger off your cop until you have him pointed at your target.

(Sorry. Couldn't resist. )

 

[udy]

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

Not required by law. However more cops are killed on traffic stops than any other way. They tend to be nervous and if he happens to see you gun, well it is not fun looking down the barrel of a very nervous and adrenalin pumped cop. I always say, "I have a CPL and I am carrying."

Hi I am new here. I read here from time to time, thought I would join up finally. I see bear says it is not required by law. This is interesting to me since I was told other wise when I got my CCW permit from Clark county. I live in Oregon but got a Washington permit about 4 years ago. I will dig up the paper they gave me that said that. I know it is not an Oregon law.

 

[udy]

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911Boss wrote:

ghillie wrote:

No statutory requirement, definitely a courtesy. Just like keeping both hands on the steering wheel when the officer is approaching, don't be worming around during the approach, if you have illegally tinted windows, have the window down fully,etc.

If you are seen with a gun and you have chosen not to advise you have a CPL, the officer will assume the worse until he can feel he has made the scene safe for him/her. How that will play out will be different from officer to officer.

When does black become white? Answering all questions truthfully and honestly is a courtesy as well, even if they are irrelevant and unnecessary. What if he asks for a voluntary breathalyzer as part of a sobriety checkpoint? Would it be rude to refuse?What if he asks you to consent to a search of your vehicle? It would certainly be courteous to do so.

My point is the officer only needs certain information to do his job. He may want more, but not providing it isn't wrong. I disagree that it is "courtesy" to complicate things with unnecessary information that could easily lead to an abuse of your rights.

You said it yourself, "How that will play out will be different from officer to officer." This is just as truefor volunteering the information as it is for not volunteering it and there are a lots of stories about cops going overboard when aware of a legally carried gun.

Yes, by all means TELL the officer you have a gun IF (and in my opinion ONLY if) it is in "plain view" or there is a chance it will be seen.

Yes, tell the officeryou have a gun on your person ANYTIME the officer instructs you to exit the vehicle. Why? Because at that point there is a chance it will be seen (see above).

Otherwise it is legal, acceptable, and safe to not bring it up. Feel free to ALWAYS tell the cop you are carrying if you feel comfortable doing that as well. There really is no "Wrong" answer in this state. My point is that either choice you make could cause problems. If you understand what might happen, I think you are better prepared for it if it does happen.

I agree I never offer anymore than necessary. Keep it as simple as possible. The extent of my conversations with Police on my end is "yes sir" or "no sir" I also never allow them to do what they want. I have been asked more than once if they could search my car or see whats behind the seat. A simple no sir works great. Oh they get reall mad and try to push the issue then and start asking questions like "you trying to hide something, just let me look". Again a simple no sir works and soon your on your way.

 

[adamsesq]

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Udy - welcome - from another Oregonian. 2 sources that are rarely reliable as to what the law really is: LEOs (including those that issue CPLs) and CCW instructors... YMMV.

-adamsesq

 

[thebastidge]

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"I see bear says it is not required by law. This is interesting to me since I was told other wise when I got my CCW permit from Clark county."

It is not required to volunteer information- ever. This is a basic principle. You have the right to remain silent.

However, when requested to show it by a person with legal authority to request it, you must show it.

 

[Bookman]

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thebastidge wrote:

"I see bear says it is not required by law. This is interesting to me since I was told other wise when I got my CCW permit from Clark county."

It is not required to volunteer information- ever. This is a basic principle. You have the right to remain silent.

However, when requested to show it by a person with legal authority to request it, you must show it.

+1

 

[Bear 45/70]

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udy wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

Not required by law. However more cops are killed on traffic stops than any other way. They tend to be nervous and if he happens to see you gun, well it is not fun looking down the barrel of a very nervous and adrenalin pumped cop. I always say, "I have a CPL and I am carrying."

Hi I am new here. I read here from time to time, thought I would join up finally. I see bear says it is not required by law. This is interesting to me since I was told other wise when I got my CCW permit from Clark county. I live in Oregon but got a Washington permit about 4 years ago. I will dig up the paper they gave me that said that. I know it is not an Oregon law.

What Bear said in response to the op's question
"Am I supposed to tell the LEO when I get stopped that I have a ccl? Or does he allready know?"

And I responded

"Not required by law."

You are not required to tell the cop you have a gun or a CPL, unless he asks.

 

[vote_no]

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

I guess my only option is to not respond to you ever again. If there as a "Ignore" button on this forum, I would surely use it on you and your ilk.

If there was an ignore option, you'd be talking to yourself.

 

[Bear 45/70]

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vote_no wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

I guess my only option is to not respond to you ever again. If there as a "Ignore" button on this forum, I would surely use it on you and your ilk.

If there was an ignore option, you'd be talking to yourself.

First off dumbass, I was responding to udy. So you like your twin are wrong once again.

 

[bobestes]

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

Not required by law. However more cops are killed on traffic stops than any other way. They tend to be nervous and if he happens to see you gun, well it is not fun looking down the barrel of a very nervous and adrenalin pumped cop. I always say, "I have a CPL and I am carrying."

I figure it's better to tell the cop than to have a misunderstanding. I keep my CPL behind my DL. When a cop asks for my DL, I hand him both. He'll usually do a double take and ask me if I'm carrying. When I answer in the affirmative, he'll usually ask where it is and tell me to leave it there. Almost invariably he has thanked me for letting him know I was armed.

 

[sv_libertarian]

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vote_no wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

I guess my only option is to not respond to you ever again. If there as a "Ignore" button on this forum, I would surely use it on you and your ilk.

If there was an ignore option, you'd be talking to yourself.

No he'd be talking to me too. And a lot of other people.

 

[sv_libertarian]

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bobestes wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

Not required by law. However more cops are killed on traffic stops than any other way. They tend to be nervous and if he happens to see you gun, well it is not fun looking down the barrel of a very nervous and adrenalin pumped cop. I always say, "I have a CPL and I am carrying."

I figure it's better to tell the cop than to have a misunderstanding. I keep my CPL behind my DL. When a cop asks for my DL, I hand him both. He'll usually do a double take and ask me if I'm carrying. When I answer in the affirmative, he'll usually ask where it is and tell me to leave it there. Almost invariably he has thanked me for letting him know I was armed.

I've never had a cop complain that I volunteered I was armed, and I've never not had one fail to thank me for the courtesy. Strangely enough I've been a lot less likely to have any issues with minor infractions either. The Coasties could have popped me for not having my dinghy registered but never did. Could have got me on my very not legal running lights too one night.

 

[amlevin]

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sv_libertarian wrote:

I've never had a cop complain that I volunteered I was armed, and I've never not had one fail to thank me for the courtesy. Strangely enough I've been a lot less likely to have any issues with minor infractions either. The Coasties could have popped me for not having my dinghy registered but never did. Could have got me on my very not legal running lights too one night.

One certainly could provide only what is required by law and then the LEO could respond with everything he is allowed to do by law as well. If he finds that one is carrying a weapon during the course of the stop he is allowed to secure it for his safety. This could involve a face down study of the roadside by the driver.

Why not just offer the courtesy of showing the CPL and advising there is a weapon on board? Good things can happen if the stage is set properly from the beginning. I have had two encounters in the last 5 years. One was an accident where some "wingnut" ran into my rear end at a stop sign. The deputy who responded looked at my CPL and just nodded. The last was a stop at a construction site where the flagger gave one "command" and the motorcycle officer thought he wanted me to stop. Again I offered Licence, CPL, and location of gun. A nod and a thank you. I was on my way in less than a minute without ticket.

Bottom line is courtesy is more often rewarded than not when it comes to dealing with LEOs. The event will end far more happily than if you want to let the officer be surprised with the presence of a weapon.

 

[911Boss]

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amlevin wrote:

Why not just offer the courtesy of showing the CPL and advising there is a weapon on board? Good things can happen if the stage is set properly from the beginning. I have had two encounters in the last 5 years. One was an accident where some "wingnut" ran into my rear end at a stop sign. The deputy who responded looked at my CPL and just nodded. The last was a stop at a construction site where the flagger gave one "command" and the motorcycle officer thought he wanted me to stop. Again I offered Licence, CPL, and location of gun. A nod and a thank you. I was on my way in less than a minute without ticket.

Bottom line is courtesy is more often rewarded than not when it comes to dealing with LEOs. The event will end far more happily than if you want to let the officer be surprised with the presence of a weapon.

I agree in offering courtesy, however my definition of "courtesy" differs. For me, "courtesy" involves immediate acknowledgment of the officer and stopping in a position that offers him safety, polite behavior, and cooperation.

I too have been rewarded for my courtesy by rarely being given tickets for what I may have (or have not) done.

The one time I thought it was courteous to tell the officer I was carrying, up front and without his asking, I was "rewarded" by being called out of the car and treated as a criminal. That didn't seem like a very courteous response to me. After my experience, and hearing the experiences of others, I have decided to take a different approach. "If it isn't an issue, don't make it an issue".

Now if an officer asks me if I am armed, I will not lie to him. But unless the circumstances suggest it will be seen, such as OC, plain sight, being asked to exit the vehicle, then I will let the officer know so he is not surprised. Otherwise, I don't bring it up if they don't

It is a roll of the dice and you don't know what type of officer you are dealing with. I prefer safe, not sorry and I believe my method maximizes safety (mine and the officers) and minimizes sorry (mine).

 

[shad0wfax]

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I've dealt with LEO's while carrying concealed in vehicles twice, with very different results.

A conversation witha Spokane County Sherriff Deputy went like this:

Deputy: Do you know why I stopped you today?

me: No, Deputy, but here's my license, registration, and proof of insurance. Mydriver's license has an epiration of MIL, so here's my military ID cardso you can verify that it's not expired.I alsohave a CPL and I am carrying at this time, if you'd like to see my CPL.

Deputy: Are you planning on shooting me?

me: *chuckled* Of course not.

Deputy: OK then, let's talk about your burned out tail light.

No citation was issued. He thanked me for my service, wished me a pleasant day and told me to get my tail light fixed as soon as possible. He very nonchalant about me being armed. If anything, he became more friendly towards me.

911Boss wrote:

On the other hand, I can't recall a single story where a cooperative motorist, legally carrying a concealed weapon or a weapon off-body but in a case,was drawn down on, let alone shot by an officer who "freaked out" like a nervous Nellie.

I had a WSP grip his weapon, release the detent on his holster, and lift his pistol about 1/2" above the normal retention spot when I politely and calmly informed him that I had a CPL and was carrying. He didn't fully draw, nor did he fire his weapon, but he was visibly nervous and he actually frightened me. (I wonder if I could have filed a complaint that he was warranting alarm?)

The situation went down like this:

AWSP motorcycle uniton I-90 in the Seattle area (near exit 10) arrivedat the scene a traffic accident in the HOV lane. It was a fender-bender; no serious property damage and no injuries with4 vehicles involved. Three of us were off of the interstate and well into the shoulder, to avoid being hit. The lady up front was still in the HOV lane, refusing to move her vehicle or talk to anyone.

me: Here's my license, registration, and proof of insurance officer. I've already exchanged my name, address, phone number, and insurance policy number with each of the other drivers, except for the lady up front. She's on her cell-phone inside of her carand won't respond to any of the other drivers involved. She refuses to roll down her window to talk to us and won't move her vehicle out of the HOV lane. She's almost been rear-ended twice already by other drivers. Also (very quietly so other drivers would not hear) I have a CPL and I am carrying.

At this point, the patrollman's demeanor changed completely. He became very gruff and agitated, almost as if he was angry with me for carrying. The WSP thengripped his pistol,released thedetention lever on his holster and lifted the pistol about 1/2" or so above the normal holstered point. He didn't completely clear his holster, but he was quite prepared to do so. I specifically waited to inform him that I was carrying until I had my own vehicle blocking line of sight from the other folks involved, so at least none of the other drivers saw this go down.

WSP: What type of firearm and where are you carrying it?

me: It is a revolver in my waistband, under my shirt.

WSP:Slowly take your firearm out of your pants with your thumb and index finger only. (I did so.) Now unload the firearm. (I did so.) Put theammunition on your seat and close the door of your vehicle. (I did so.)

At this point, the WSP holstered his weapon, disarmed me and took my firearm to his motorcycle, locking it up for the duration of the accident response. He detained me at the scene, allowing all other vehicles to leave first. He almost drove off on his bike, until I rather bluntly and loudlyreminded him that he still had my firearm. (He had his helmet on so I had to speak quite loudly.)At this point he gave it back, and instructed me not to re-load it until after he left and then only inside of my own vehicle.

I was very displeased with the WSP's attitude andrather annoyed that he disarmed me. I have to admit I was visibly angry when he tried to drive off with my firearm.



In the future, I will NEVER inform any LEO that I am carrying a weapon unless I am placed under arrest and they ask me ifI have any weapons/needles/etc or if the weapon is in plain sight of the officer. They can't be nervous about something they don't know is there. If I tell them I'm armed, they could be more nervous, or worse, take it as some kind of a veiled threat. The law does not require me to inform them and the law and I see no reason to voluntarily extend them the courtesy of informing them of my weaponif they're liable to disarm me and then forget to return my property or alarm other drivers.