WCI members must be united!

[J.Gleason]

James, you are so far off base its shocking. I'm going to respond to this ONCE and put an end to it.

This internet forum has become a JOKE. Every internet forum has garbage to sift through to gather information. But this forum has become more pollution than information. ALL OF YOU GUYS who bicker in EVERY thread have made this forum unuseable. Don't blame anyone else. LOOK IN THE MIRROR. EACH of you.

I will be honest. I read MAYBE 1 out of 10 posts on this garbage filled forum and ANYONE who participates in the mudslinging is equally to blame.

You may think you are "taking on a bully" but the reality is you are just polluting the forum.

To set the record straight.


Hubert has been on vacation at Disneyland with his kids for the past week. With his wife dying unexpectedly a couple months ago, and ALL the time he has devoted to WCI over the past year, I think its well deserved. I'm sure had he known J. Gleason was going to call him out for "standing mute" on topics on OCDO he would have let you know he was going.

Its a shame you have a habit of jumping to your own erroneous conclusions and posting them on this forum as fact when they are not.

I mean honestly J. With all the garbage on this forum do you REALLY think we have time to wade through it, AND do our regular jobs AND do all we do for WCI as volunteers? Sorry, the "forum" is the first thing to get LOW priority.

Another WCI board member has never posted on these forums, so I don't know why you'd expect to hear from him, and Auric and I are posting less and less because the debate is no longer productive. Its just bashing back and forth between a small group of people. I know, you will blame it all on someone else, but you are just as much to blame for proliferating it. Takes 2 to tango.




I have not received ONE communication from you J. NOT ONE. ONCE again, you are jumping to your own conclusions and posting them as fact.





Who do you mean by "we"??? The few people left on this forum?

WCI is SO much larger than this forum. ONLY a fraction of our membership comes here. I'm sorry if you judge WCI by the participation on this online forum. Our activities are far more than that.

We don't have all day to post and banter. We all have full time jobs. We do a GREAT deal and devote a GREAT deal of time to the cause, but I've come to know it will NEVER be enough for everyone and it certainly will never be enough for you.

WCI does a lot of things. Thousands support it because of the things we do. If you want us to be "everything" you will be dissappointed.



J. now you are SO far off in left field you're bordering on libel. Once again, you jump to erroneous conclusions and spew it out on the board here.

NO ONE speaks for WCI except for the board. NO ONE from the board asks ANYONE to engage in debate for us. NOT NOW, NOT EVER.

The bickering has ruined the Wisconsin forum here on OCDO. WHY in the hell would we encourage someone to stir the pot???

We have no control over what anyone posts. I've asked people to stop bickering. I've asked people to stop bashing back and forth. I've suggested that this is the internet and you CAN'T win an argument online, you can only STOP polluting it. If someone makes a rude post and you respond YOU are part of the problem. You HAVE to be the bigger man and STOP taking shots at people. NO ONE listened. NO ONE. If YOU didn't respond to a request to stop bickering why would you expect ANYONE ELSE that I asked to stop bickering to stop either?



I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR MONTHS!

DO NOT ask WCI to do what you can do yourself. WE ARE ALL volunteer. For $15 or $100, we do not become your employee that will do EVERYTHING.

There are things WCI can do that individuals may not have the capacity to (file lawsuits etc)

There are other things that ANYONE can do.

WCI cannot, will not, and could never be everything to everyone.



For our part, WCI will do everything we can to move Wisconsin to a constitutional conceal carry state. That has ALWAYS been our mission and remains our mission. If we end up with Shall-issue this year instead of constitution carry, OUR MISSION DOES NOT CHANGE.

I believe we can get there now, but its at BEST 50 50 odds. I'm looking forward to WHATEVER happens in late spring EVEN if its shall issue, because once we get SHALL ISSUE all the scardy-cats who are SO afraid that if we pushed for constitutional carry we'd end up with NOTHING will have their "shall issue" security blanket and then we can find out who REALLY supports constitution carry and who doesn't. I'm WELL aware WCI has members who today, probably don't care about constitution carry. They have been starved for years for right to carry and they'll accept anything. I ALSO know that once they begin to pay for training and pay for permits and then have to RENEW those permits and perhaps pay for MORE training when they renew... They'll some day realize constitution carry is where we need to be. WHEN THEY DO WCI will still be here, still be fighting.

When those in love with shall-issue get charged with disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace for "printing" or for some mamby-pamby old lady liberal seeing a peek of their gun inside their jacket when they reach up to pull a can of beans off of the top-store shelf, WISCONSIN CARRY INC. will be there to back them up and protect their rights.

Shall-issue is not the promised land, it is not the miracle cure. Many believe it is. WCI is here for the LOOONG haul.

WCI has a plan to end-around all the people who want to leverage the government to drive $ to their door (mass FREE training to meet a training requirement IF it is put in place) We plan to give FREE training to 1000's because we don't believe government should be allowed to be leveraged to drive profit for private businesses (instructors)

We believe in the free market AND the value of voluntary training within that free market.

What if there was a shall-issue permit system that expanded OC rights without a permit?

What if a shall-issue permit system was passed that left OC without a permit as-is and changed the GFSZ's to school property only and removed 167.31????

Thus making OC WAY more practical in WAY more places?

Will you bash that as a 'compromise'?

WCI will not be able to please everyone.

Legislation aside, WCI does MANY things. We file lawsuits to protect rights. We promote choice of carry. We educate the public, and many other facets of the cause.

Legislation is the HARDEST part because we ALL know the legislative process is a SLIMY SLIMY world with backroom deals and favors and complex bills.

I'll be honest, its the part of the movement that I HATE the most.

I love promoting the cause, meeting people, educating them on OC, using the courts to address the rights of law abiding people being violated. Legislation is SLIMY, its UGLY, and its the part of what we do that I detest. But we feel we must participate in that process.



D@mn right it sure has

I

YES. This forum is JUST talk. The REAL work happens off the forum. You guys with too much time on your hands use this forum as entertainment to bash each other and fill your day with DRAMA.

So get off the forum, stop the nonsense and DO SOMETHING REAL.

SO there is NO confusion, please note that WCI is becoming less and less active in these forums because they are polluted.

WCI will continue to post announcements here but do not expect us to try to WADE through pages and pages of absolutely POINTLESS bashing back and forth.

WCI has our facebook page to deliver information as well.

We have been working diligently on a new professional website that will be MUCH more interactive and allow us to post content (announcements, articles, and such) and people will be allowed to post comments but we will ZAP ANY bull$hit comments that are posted.

EVERY welcome letter that we send out to a new member use to contain a link to this discussion forum. WE will NO longer provide a link to this forum in our welcome letter, ONLY links to our facebook page, website, twitter, and youtube account.

ALL you guys who have too much time on your hands that you can come here and bash each other every day, call names, blame, accuse, float conspiracy theory have made this necessary. You made it a forum full of more pollution than information. That was SO important to you that you just COULDN'T control your desire to bash back and forth incessantly. So enjoy.

Carry On

OK Nik, so in fairness I will respond only this one time as well.

To set the record straight, I have sent you messages on Facebook, and I have sent messages to Hubert and Auric on Facebook as well. Funny thing, when you were sending me messages a while back you had no problems responding then. I am not saying that I am positive that you are ignoring me I am saying that I have received no response to my messages. Those messages by the way concerning legislators that have expressed their interest in working with WCI. I even sent you messages letting you know that I was facing disciplinary actions through work for passing on a Walker fact check page to let state employees know that we had been lied to by the union. Again no response. Didn't want anything from you just thought you might be interested in the information as I know you have always been an avid Walker supporter.

As far as the forum bully goes, it was he that made comments leaving the rest of us with the impression that he was speaking for the WCI board to keep the board members looking squeaky clean in the forum. All I asked was that one or all of you come forward and dispute his insinuations.

Look how fast you jumped on what you thought was a negative comment coming from me, yet you say absolutely nothing on the negative comments from Spartacus. We get it, you think he is a great guy who has done a lot for the effort, regardless of what the rest of us have done. His table time out shines any of our efforts.

He has directly made comments about how he is going to confront certain individuals at events. Is that really what you want? I am sure the media would love it.

As far as the WCI membership and this forum, I wouldn't know. I have also sent messages asking what the membership size was or is and still to this day have not gotten an answer. I even asked if you could confirm my membership number, again no answer.

Of course I could always go back and copy and paste those messages I suppose.

Don't make out like I am targeting Hubert either. I am not. I happen to think he is a stand up guy and have absolutely no issues with him and in fact we both agree and have agreed on the repeal issue from the very beginning. I have been the strong proponent of Constitutional Carry here all along, even when back in the day, you told me I was nuts and it wouldn't happen. Then changes started coming about, court cases, law suits, WCI was created and you now agree that we have at least a 50/50 chance of making something happen with a repeal.

Instead you make comments like " your so far off base it is shocking, and you are SO far off in left field you're bordering on libel," and in the past you have straight out called me a nut case.

All I have been trying to do here is keep this forum focused on the goal. The same goal that WCI claims to have and that is repealing 941.23 and if we don't get that fighting for a fair, reasonable and constitutional CCW Bill.

trying to keep everyone motivated is no small task. And as far as just sitting on this forum and trash typing, that is not me. I work two jobs and when I have free time I do come on here. There are some, whom it is evident by there post frequency are obviously unemployed and can post throughout the day or night. I am not one of them.

I despise anyone who comes on here and purposely tries to mislead people into taking compromise and I will speak up when I see it happening. There is a difference between coming to this forum and getting good information and coming here and being manipulated by people who have their own agenda. I want people to know the truth and the facts about their rights and where this movement is going.

Laying fault on this forum is ridiculous. Not referring people here is also ridiculous and is nothing more than cutting communication with those that are not considered members of the elite founders club. The fact that there even is such a difference in membership is ridiculous all by itself. There are many of us who have devoted countless hours into this cause and that time is just as valuable if not more than a mere hundred dollars that puts someone on the list of elite. I just wish you could realize how you make people feel out here.

Hey I am just saying what many here will not say in the forum.

I am a member of WCI because I believe in what it stands for. I do as much as I can. My work schedule does not allow me to make events, so be it. Doesn't make me any less important than any other member.

I think you should go back and edit your post and take out the derogatory remarks about this forum so new members here can understand that there is information to be gained by membership here. After all if it were not for this forum WCI may not be here.

Lets put an end to all this bickering bull crap and start communicating with each other so we can all stand together and get something done.

ETA: What if there was a shall-issue permit system that expanded OC rights without a permit?

What if a shall-issue permit system was passed that left OC without a permit as-is and changed the GFSZ's to school property only and removed 167.31????

Thus making OC WAY more practical in WAY more places?

Will you bash that as a 'compromise'?

I would accept that as a start as long as it did not have the ridiculous fees and mandated training costs. Let me be clear, I do not need training. I already have what would be required. My concern is not for myself but those who may not be able to afford the cost. I also think you have an excellent idea with the free training through WCI. That may solve the problem.

 

[Gray Peterson]

What if a shall-issue permit system was passed that left OC without a permit as-is and changed the GFSZ's to school property only and removed 167.31????

Thus making OC WAY more practical in WAY more places?

Will you bash that as a 'compromise'?

I would accept that as a start as long as it did not have the ridiculous fees and mandated training costs. Let me be clear, I do not need training. I already have what would be required. My concern is not for myself but those who may not be able to afford the cost. I also think you have an excellent idea with the free training through WCI. That may solve the problem.

The underlined above is what I've been trying to tell you over and over again. The problem is that you have difficulty thinking in the 4th dimension, which is time, and with that lack of thinking in "time", you also lack of thinking also in context.

You were too busy telling me "stay in your own state and don't tell us what to do". I have many interests in Wisconsin that are not readily apparent to everyone because I don't go into detail of which close friends and family members live in Wisconsin. Not to mention the completely preposterous assumptions that I am hooked up with Gene German or am some sort of firearms instructor wanting to make money off of Wisconsin carry licensees. Which is sort of funny because A) I'm not a firearms instructor and B) I'm currently (note, currently) reside in a state with NO TRAINING REQUIRED. Why, pray tell, would I want to saddle people with onerous and costly training requirements, or even any training at all, especially with something that's supposed to be a general weapons license?

The problem is, James, is that you keep jumping to conclusions and posting them as fact. Because Rep. Gunderson says he's going to introduce a shall-issue concealed weapons bill, you right away assume a repeat of the 2003-2006 bills. Because Jordan Austin last fall (under Doyle) stated that there wasn't the votes for a veto override of Doyle for a repeal, Jordan Austin (and by extension, the NRA) somehow is against repeal of 941.23.

I don't presume to speak for WCI (I'm a member, IIRC, if I'm not, Nik, let me know and I'll fix that up) or for Nik specifically, but the above paragraph is what causes others (including me) to be annoyed at you specifically. Your behavior, especially towards other forum guests when they point out the fallacies of your arguments (without attacking you personally) is unacceptable and violative of the rules of this forum.

Specifically:

(12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.

Enough with the holier than thou crap, Jim.

 

[blaze]

The underlined above is what I've been trying to tell you over and over again. The problem is that you have difficulty thinking in the 4th dimension, which is time, and with that lack of thinking in "time", you also lack of thinking also in context.

You were too busy telling me "stay in your own state and don't tell us what to do". I have many interests in Wisconsin that are not readily apparent to everyone because I don't go into detail of which close friends and family members live in Wisconsin. Not to mention the completely preposterous assumptions that I am hooked up with Gene German or am some sort of firearms instructor wanting to make money off of Wisconsin carry licensees. Which is sort of funny because A) I'm not a firearms instructor and B) I'm currently (note, currently) reside in a state with NO TRAINING REQUIRED. Why, pray tell, would I want to saddle people with onerous and costly training requirements, or even any training at all, especially with something that's supposed to be a general weapons license?

The problem is, James, is that you keep jumping to conclusions and posting them as fact. Because Rep. Gunderson says he's going to introduce a shall-issue concealed weapons bill, you right away assume a repeat of the 2003-2006 bills. Because Jordan Austin last fall (under Doyle) stated that there wasn't the votes for a veto override of Doyle for a repeal, Jordan Austin (and by extension, the NRA) somehow is against repeal of 941.23.

I don't presume to speak for WCI (I'm a member, IIRC, if I'm not, Nik, let me know and I'll fix that up) or for Nik specifically, but the above paragraph is what causes others (including me) to be annoyed at you specifically. Your behavior, especially towards other forum guests when they point out the fallacies of your arguments (without attacking you personally) is unacceptable and violative of the rules of this forum.

Specifically:

(12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.

Enough with the holier than thou crap, Jim.

Not a very nice offering to Jim.

 

[Gray Peterson]

Not a very nice offering to Jim.

Truth hurts.

 

[J.Gleason]

The underlined above is what I've been trying to tell you over and over again. The problem is that you have difficulty thinking in the 4th dimension, which is time, and with that lack of thinking in "time", you also lack of thinking also in context.

You were too busy telling me "stay in your own state and don't tell us what to do". I have many interests in Wisconsin that are not readily apparent to everyone because I don't go into detail of which close friends and family members live in Wisconsin. Not to mention the completely preposterous assumptions that I am hooked up with Gene German or am some sort of firearms instructor wanting to make money off of Wisconsin carry licensees. Which is sort of funny because A) I'm not a firearms instructor and B) I'm currently (note, currently) reside in a state with NO TRAINING REQUIRED. Why, pray tell, would I want to saddle people with onerous and costly training requirements, or even any training at all, especially with something that's supposed to be a general weapons license?

The problem is, James, is that you keep jumping to conclusions and posting them as fact. Because Rep. Gunderson says he's going to introduce a shall-issue concealed weapons bill, you right away assume a repeat of the 2003-2006 bills. Because Jordan Austin last fall (under Doyle) stated that there wasn't the votes for a veto override of Doyle for a repeal, Jordan Austin (and by extension, the NRA) somehow is against repeal of 941.23.

I don't presume to speak for WCI (I'm a member, IIRC, if I'm not, Nik, let me know and I'll fix that up) or for Nik specifically, but the above paragraph is what causes others (including me) to be annoyed at you specifically. Your behavior, especially towards other forum guests when they point out the fallacies of your arguments (without attacking you personally) is unacceptable and violative of the rules of this forum.

Specifically:

(12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.

Enough with the holier than thou crap, Jim.

First off, Gray
When did I say you were a firearms instructor? When did I say you were associated with the likes of Gene German? I think it is you who is full of assumptions and you know what they say about when you assume, it makes an ass of u and me. Don't put words in my mouth.

And as far as me presuming to speak for WCI, you got that wrong I only speak as a member. You on the other had appear in your statement above to be presumably speaking for Nik.
Now, under the request of my friend Brass I respectfully declined on arguing with you in another post. Now you bring the argument to me. So then in your and Nik's eyes, I am then the bad guy again. Nicely played. I think the others here see right through that.

I know what was said by the NRA guy last fall. It was not my imagination as much as you would like to think that. Now that Walker is in the NRA will again move forward and try to get the bill in. I just hope Gunderson has made the changes that you and Nik have approved for the Bill.

And speaking of the holier than tho crap you and Nik might just want to sweep your own door steps first. Deleted Personal Attack - OCDO Moderator

Therefore, I have nothing further to say to you about the issue. No sense in arguing with someone who has nothing at stake here in Wisconsin.

 

[blaze]

Truth hurts.

In your opinion only.

 

[Gray Peterson]

As an organization unless we become more vocal, proactive and united in our cause for choice of carry I will wager a cup of the best coffee,if and when we meet at Starbucks that this is the way the carry legislation will play out. Any proposed legislation will be crafted as Rep Gunderson, the NRA and Gene German ( don't understimate the influence of Gene German) want it to be crafted.

And WCI just nullified Gene German's attempts to create a Utah-style instructor system. They pretty much stated that they will offer the training for free to members and non-members alike, and they have instructors lined up who will donate time and treasure to the cause.

It will be baited. It will be baited with provisions of a Castle Doctrine. It will be baited with the authority to carry a permitted loaded and concealed firearm in a school zone. It will possibly be baited with some kind of exclusion to the vehicle transport law. Outside of this forum there is such a thirst for concealed carry amoung the gun owners of Wisconsin that unless we as an organization get our act together and become more visible in the arena we will be like a chihuahua in a fight with dobermans.

Most people that carry for self defense do not and will never want to carry openly. For a sizeable majority of persons that want to carry, they see what happened to the Madison 5 and afraid it will happen to them. Unless concealed carry is allowed as an option, self defense.

There's also continual misapprehension of the timelines and the players involved, a belief of this "dark and evil foreboding conspiracy". Such a conspiracy only exists in people's minds.

Every previous PPA bill was an unclean bill due to having to beg for a two thirds majority vote. WCI nullified the potential of moneymaking off the backs of license holders if mandated training did actually make it in. The fact that mandated training isn't even a default discussion, considering that it's a concealed weapons license and there really isn't a "training class" for knives, is getting quite a bit of particular attention (yes, KnifeRights has been or already has been notified the goings on in Wisconsin and would be likely be weighing in against mandated firearms training for a general weapon's license).

I made my opinions to Mr. Gunderson and Mr. Austin clear. They both have been put on notice that fixing vehicle carry, GFSZA, and disorderly conduct code purely for license holders is unacceptable, and that they need to significantly rewrite the weapons code of Wisconsin. I gave them a large list of fixes (over a dozen) that needs to be done in any bill. I won't post them here so that WAVE can just lift them up and start hammering away at specific points with legislators, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Gray Peterson]

First off, Gray
When did I say you were a firearms instructor? When did I say you were associated with the likes of Gene German? I think it is you who is full of assumptions and you know what they say about when you assume, it makes an ass of u and me. Don't put words in my mouth.

Yet how do you treat someone from out of state. "You have no stake", which is crap. My family members and friends in Wisconsin have a pretty big stake in it.

And as far as me presuming to speak for WCI, you got that wrong I only speak as a member. You on the other had appear in your statement above to be presumably speaking for Nik.

You have serious reading comprehension problems.

Read what I stated again:

I don't presume to speak for WCI (I'm a member, IIRC, if I'm not, Nik, let me know and I'll fix that up) or for Nik specifically, but the above paragraph is what causes others (including me) to be annoyed at you specifically. Your behavior, especially towards other forum guests when they point out the fallacies of your arguments (without attacking you personally) is unacceptable and violative of the rules of this forum.

Now, under the request of my friend Brass I respectfully declined on arguing with you in another post. Now you bring the argument to me. So then in your and Nik's eyes, I am then the bad guy again. Nicely played. I think the others here see right through that.

Your own attitude on this forum makes you a "bad guy".

I know what was said by the NRA guy last fall. It was not my imagination as much as you would like to think that. Now that Walker is in the NRA will again move forward and try to get the bill in. I just hope Gunderson has made the changes that you and Nik have approved for the Bill.

I made my opinions and my demands clear to Gunderson in an email, and also made my opinions clear to Jordan Austin. I again stand by what I am said. You are mixing up the context of "don't have the votes to override Doyle's veto" with "we don't support constitutional carry". Jumping to a conclusion and making it seem like fact.

Therefore, I have nothing further to say to you about the issue. No sense in arguing with someone who has nothing at stake here in Wisconsin.

Wisconsin violates my right to keep and bear arms when I visit, and violates the RKBA of my family members and friends who reside there. You don't like what I say? Tough.

 

[blaze]

Yet how do you treat someone from out of state. "You have no stake", which is crap. My family members and friends in Wisconsin have a pretty big stake in it.



You have serious reading comprehension problems.

Read what I stated again:

I don't presume to speak for WCI (I'm a member, IIRC, if I'm not, Nik, let me know and I'll fix that up) or for Nik specifically, but the above paragraph is what causes others (including me) to be annoyed at you specifically. Your behavior, especially towards other forum guests when they point out the fallacies of your arguments (without attacking you personally) is unacceptable and violative of the rules of this forum.




Your own attitude on this forum makes you a "bad guy".



I made my opinions and my demands clear to Gunderson in an email, and also made my opinions clear to Jordan Austin. I again stand by what I am said. You are mixing up the context of "don't have the votes to override Doyle's veto" with "we don't support constitutional carry". Jumping to a conclusion and making it seem like fact.



Wisconsin violates my right to keep and bear arms when I visit, and violates the RKBA of my family members and friends who reside there. You don't like what I say? Tough.

I do not agree with what you say about Wisconsin. Touche. Using someone's last name continuously in this manner is offensive, especially there are many hundreds of thousands of people throughout the world with the last name "Peterson". If you're going to use a member's RL name, use their first name. Previous posts have been edited to remove this. -OCDO Moderator

 

[blaze]

And WCI just nullified Gene German's attempts to create a Utah-style instructor system. They pretty much stated that they will offer the training for free to members and non-members alike, and they have instructors lined up who will donate time and treasure to the cause.



Most people that carry for self defense do not and will never want to carry openly. For a sizeable majority of persons that want to carry, they see what happened to the Madison 5 and afraid it will happen to them. Unless concealed carry is allowed as an option, self defense.

There's also continual misapprehension of the timelines and the players involved, a belief of this "dark and evil foreboding conspiracy". Such a conspiracy only exists in people's minds.

Every previous PPA bill was an unclean bill due to having to beg for a two thirds majority vote. WCI nullified the potential of moneymaking off the backs of license holders if mandated training did actually make it in. The fact that mandated training isn't even a default discussion, considering that it's a concealed weapons license and there really isn't a "training class" for knives, is getting quite a bit of particular attention (yes, KnifeRights has been or already has been notified the goings on in Wisconsin and would be likely be weighing in against mandated firearms training for a general weapon's license).

I made my opinions to Mr. Gunderson and Mr. Austin clear. They both have been put on notice that fixing vehicle carry, GFSZA, and disorderly conduct code purely for license holders is unacceptable, and that they need to significantly rewrite the weapons code of Wisconsin. I gave them a large list of fixes (over a dozen) that needs to be done in any bill. I won't post them here so that WAVE can just lift them up and start hammering away at specific points with legislators, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Concerning your paragraph about most people will never open carry for self defense, you must be speaking for Washington state.

Unless you have facts to back up your statement about this and the Madison 5, it is very misleading for the residents of Wisconsin.

 

[Gray Peterson]

LOL the OCDO Moderator also deleted my entire thread displaying the email response I received from the NRA Rep.

I didn't even write anything negative just showed the email and his reply.

Censorship at its best. I wonder who has their finger on the button.

Censorship only applies to governmental agencies.

1st amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Congress=/OCDO

Rule #6:

(6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, sex, or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!

Rule #2:

(2) RIGHT TO EDIT AND DELETE POSTS: We reserve the right to edit or remove posts for any reason, at any time, at our sole discretion.

Rule #12:

(12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.

I'm just glad that someone finally has been cleaning up the Wisconsin forum of the pollution and crap that's been building up over the last few years.

 

[Gray Peterson]

Concerning your paragraph about most people will never open carry for self defense, you must be speaking for Washington state.

Unless you have facts to back up your statement about this and the Madison 5, it is very misleading for the residents of Wisconsin.

How about Judge who struck down 941.23 as unconstitutionally overbroad? How about the Wisconsin Supreme Court in State v. Hamdan, which stated that open carry would likely result in disorderly conduct charges?

Washington State, just like Wisconsin, has a unconstitutionally overbroad disturbing the peace statute. But again, let's put that aside.

In Washington State has 6.6 million people. Wisconsin has 5.6 million people. Let's take out 25 percent of the population as either age ineligible or they are not allowed by state/federal law to possess guns.

In Washington State, there are 375,000 concealed pistol licenses. In Washington State, we have maybe a few hundred hardcore open carriers (including myself), and probably a few thousand more casual open carriers who occasionally do so. The rest carry concealed.

Let's say for a minute there are 200K carry license holders in Wisconsin in the first. Are you saying that a majority would choose to open carry if they had the opportunity?

 

[blaze]

How about Judge who struck down 941.23 as unconstitutionally overbroad? How about the Wisconsin Supreme Court in State v. Hamdan, which stated that open carry would likely result in disorderly conduct charges?

Washington State, just like Wisconsin, has a unconstitutionally overbroad disturbing the peace statute. But again, let's put that aside.

In Washington State has 6.6 million people. Wisconsin has 5.6 million people. Let's take out 25 percent of the population as either age ineligible or they are not allowed by state/federal law to possess guns.

In Washington State, there are 375,000 concealed pistol licenses. In Washington State, we have maybe a few hundred hardcore open carriers (including myself), and probably a few thousand more casual open carriers who occasionally do so. The rest carry concealed.

Let's say for a minute there are 200K carry license holders in Wisconsin in the first. Are you saying that a majority would choose to open carry if they had the opportunity?

Your question is not answerable. Since Wisconsin does not have conceal carry for the masses one can only guess.

My concern about the disputed paragraph is not about Washington state. I do not care what happens in YOUR state.

In MY state of Wisconsin the statements you make about the Madison 5 and how people will carry is just not factually backed by any stats.

Until you become a legal resident of MY state of Wisconsin, please do not make misleading statements about our gun rights situation. In other words, back off.

 

[rcawdor57]

I Prefer Open Carry VS Concealed Carry

I prefer open carry much more than concealed carry. I use to only conceal carry but since living here for the past 3 years I have realized that I prefer open carry much more. I would like to see a repeal of all statutes that infringe on our rights to open AND conceal carry since that IS our right but....to answer the question I prefer open carry over concealed carry.

I have had a concealed carry license from one state or another for the past 32 years and have rarely open carried except in my home...until moving to Wisconsin. I soon realized that open carry is much more than for defense of oneself and family...it is a right that we should openly exercise and not be afraid to do so.

The more people that see us open carrying the more people realize that they have not exercised a right...but instead have opted to allow the government to "allow" them to carry a concealed firearm with a license. Concealed carry is not exercising a right (in most states) where open carry is (in Wisconsin at least).

I prefer unrestricted open carry any time over concealed carry.

 

[Gray Peterson]

Your question is not answerable. Since Wisconsin does not have conceal carry for the masses one can only guess.

Do you think there would be 100,000 open carriers, even casual open carriers, in Wisconsin? Doubtful.

Until you become a legal resident of MY state of Wisconsin, please do not make misleading statements about our gun rights situation. In other words, back off.

I will decline. You don't like what I say? Tough.

 

[Shotgun]

The squabbles have spread over too many threads to know where the best place is to respond. But I will affirm what Nik posted earlier-- nobody is authorized to speak on behalf of WCI other than board members. Quite honestly we have far too much and better things to do than to referee the schoolyard bickering that takes place on this forum by adults. WCI does not run OCDO; it isn't ours to referee even if we wanted. And trust me, we wouldn't want it.

Everyone has to pick and choose their fights. If you choose to respond to every little insult thrown your way, then you may not be choosing wisely because there are bigger issues than what another forum poster thinks of you. Don't feed the fire by trying to constantly one-up one another. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm not particularly insulted or worried when another person's opinion is in opposition to my own opinion.

I don't use a WCI title on here because I when I began posting on OCDO it was only to state my own opinion and understanding of the facts. I prefer to keep it that way. WCI board members do a very good job of keeping one another informed of issue and developments. We discuss our strategy and philosophy constantly and hash out our differences behind the scenes. Philosophically we are in pretty close agreement on basic approach to and understanding of the issues. We do not "control" WCI members. That is not our job, not our intention, and not within our power. Our job, as we see it, is to protect freedoms and to expand them when possible. Being asked to bring people under control is simply a distraction from our jobs. If you have complaints about behavior on the forum, direct it to the people who run the forum. Frankly, I sympathize with them too, because I'm sure they're tired of it also.

WCI has a diverse membership, and there's nothing wrong with that. That diversity brings diverse opinions. WCI members really don't have to be united. The BOD is united. Whether you agree or disagree with the BOD, fine. We're open to your thoughts. But if your thoughts are regarding control of another organization's forum or the actions or words of individual members of WCI, then they're misdirected when aimed at WCI.

 

[Captain Nemo]

Do any members know anything or are associated with this group? It is called WI-Force. Seems like it is NRA sub-org and pretty much wants to run the show.

http://www.ammoland.com/2010/11/15/...ed&utm_campaign=Feed:+ammoland+(AmmoLand.com)

 

[Doug Huffman]

We need to ask direct questions as I will be attacked as "bashing" if I pose them myself, maybe as not qualified for not subscribing to that group.

As you can see, I found the same article and posted a link URL to it in its own thread, not having read all of OCDO-WI, at that moment, to see yours. What simile shall I use for the gathering gun related entities that won't be bashed by the Sonderkommando as intolerant political incorrectness? Hail, hail, the gang's almost all here.

 

[J.Gleason]

I think I had made statement a few days ago that it would not be long before the NRA took over the reigns here in Wisconsin. Here comes the permits, fees and mandated training. Hang on to your hats.

I really do not have issue with them being involved with the exception that they will push aside any ideology that does not fall in line with their own.

The repeal of 941.23 is the most logical and fiscally responsible approach. It will be interesting to see if they just pass it by.

 

[Doug Huffman]

That's what 'ideology' is all about. Another label is 'meme', another is 'common sense', another is 'collective wisdom' and the worst is 'politically correct.' What ever the label, it is inculcated, chiseled, graved in the stones of the demos (that's Greek for the common folk).