Is now time to cover up for a while?

[Ezerharden]

Careful! Agreeing with the evil moderator will get you a new flame job!:lol:

You are spot on about the most vociferous crowd seeming to be folks who have goofed and lost the right. I feel for the under 21 crowd; they've done nothing wrong except be born too late, but those who, in my opinion, WILLINGLY gave up that right by engaging in illegal behaviour do NOT have my sympathy. They have no voice in legitimate debate on the subject.

+1

 

[Shadow Bear]

Would be even better if they did an IP check on your posts and maybe make a few comparisons.

Its a simple matter to get an new IP address and create a second, third, fourth account if you wish. Its more difficult to grow up while doing so. The IP address is different, but the personality shines through.

 

[Ezerharden]

Its a simple matter to get an new IP address and create a second, third, fourth account if you wish. Its more difficult to grow up while doing so. The IP address is different, but the personality shines through.

Yea it shines through like polished Stainless steel.

 

[Ezerharden]

What's funny to me, is that you people think I'm stainless1911.

Peace on earth, and good will toward men.

If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it is pretty safe to say it isn't a cat.

 

[fozzy71]

Is now time to cover up for a while?

NO!

What's funny to me, is that you people think I'm stainless1911.

Peace on earth, and good will toward men.

Was that an M&P Pro in your pic you posted?

 

[TheQ]

Agreed. Between that, and shadowbears personal attacks, overmoderation, and thread deleting, this forum is slipping fast. I hope John and Mike are watching.

Who is he attacking? Stainless1911?

He doesn't participate on this forum. That's like personal attacks against Obama and Piers Morgan, isn't it?

 

[papabear]

The answer is no.....o.c.everyday all day.

 

[Bikenut]

While some seem to have taken the following quote to be an attack upon concealed carry in general...

Within the context of the subject of this thread of whether or not now is a time to cover up (concealed carry) instead of openly carry for a while due to the current anti gun atmosphere I offer the following quote of my own previous post (and stand by the wording thereof) as an example of why concealed carry.. at this time... will do nothing to further gun rights...

Concealed carry is an "out of sight... out of mind" kind of thing that fosters a societal lack of understanding that there is an actual right to bear arms..

And it is the societal lack of understanding that creates an atmosphere where anti gun individuals, anti gun organizations, and members of government, who have an agenda of eliminating any threat to their ability to force others to obey their will/control feel emboldened to attack the right to bear arms.

See my signature line in green below...........

Now I do not dispute that those who CC and those who OC should come together and support the right to bear arms instead of bitching at each other as to who is supporting the actual right, and who is supporting the privilege, to bear arms... I also do not have any illusions as to which camp... CC or OC... does the most bitching.

Want to have unity amongst gun owners? Well ... the first person who figures out how to mold the message that all methods of carry... and all guns... guns of every kind... guns used for every purpose including defensive carry, hunting, and all sport shooting... are equally in danger of being legislated, or Presidential Executive Ordered, completely out of existence.... will finally be able to put the issue of gun control into the easily understood concept that the only way the anti gunners, including Obama and his ilk, will be happy is when ALL GUNS OF ALL KINDS FOR ALL PEOPLE EXCEPT THE ELITE are outlawed.

(Please pay special attention to the portion in bold above.)

And to hide our guns at this time (which is what the OP was asking) in fear of public opinion would be sending the message that "we the people" who have the "right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" are allowing the fear of mere public opinion to cause us to abandon the right to bear arms... because we are so cowardly that the mere fear of public opinion would cause "we the people" to abandon "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"...............

..... and would be sending the message that even those who believe in the right to bear arms will allow public opinion to supersede the actual right to bear arms even further emboldening the anti gun faction, whether in the public sector or within government (including the very top office of the President), to push for even more restrictions upon the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Shadow Bear]

(6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!

(8) KEEP IT ON-TOPIC: All gun rights discussions not directly related to open carry should take place in the "General Discussions" forum and topics that are not related to gun rights at all should take place in "The Lounge". Please police your own posts before posting them and help keep OCDO strong and focused.

(9) HATE IS NOT WELCOME HERE: Any posts attacking others based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity, or anything other than opposition to gun rights is NOT WELCOME HERE! We reserve the right to impose immediate bans for such behavior.

Doesn't matter who the attacks are directed to, apparently. Unless the person is in opposition to gun rights. Love him, or hate him, that doesn't apply to 1911.

(9) HATE IS NOT WELCOME HERE: Any posts attacking others based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity, or anything other than opposition to gun rights is NOT WELCOME HERE! We reserve the right to impose immediate bans for such behavior.

The little pyramid with the exclamation point is waiting for you. Meanwhile, I see a number of posts vilifying concealed carriers for their personal choices. Shall we consider those a violation of the rules? What about LE bashing? We've seen that, too. If you see a violation, then, BY ALL MEANS, report it. That goes for everyone. If I see a complaint for some of those posts, they'll be deleted.

stainless1911 was banned for continued violations of several forum rules, specifically 5, 6, 8, 9, 12, 14, and especially 15. He was warned multiple times, and then banned. His continued push for illegal activities, and personal attacks on those who attempted to help him proved him to be a hazard to the general firearm owners community. He was advocating for illegal activities, but admitted to not pursuing legal recourse when he himself was charged with violations, which, in the end, cost him his CPL. He is NOT someone you want to defend or emulate- he disgraced himself and the OC community. He is banned for good reason. Now, lets drop the pretense, and move on with the discussion. That is not a 'personal attack', it is a rendition of facts.

 

[Shadow Bear]

While some seem to have taken the following quote to be an attack upon concealed carry in general...

Within the context of the subject of this thread of whether or not now is a time to cover up (concealed carry) instead of openly carry for a while due to the current anti gun atmosphere I offer the following quote of my own previous post (and stand by the wording thereof) as an example of why concealed carry.. at this time... will do nothing to further gun rights...



Now I do not dispute that those who CC and those who OC should come together and support the right to bear arms instead of bitching at each other as to who is supporting the actual right, and who is supporting the privilege, to bear arms... I also do not have any illusions as to which camp... CC or OC... does the most bitching.

Want to have unity amongst gun owners? Well ... the first person who figures out how to mold the message that all methods of carry... and all guns... guns of every kind... guns used for every purpose including defensive carry, hunting, and all sport shooting... are equally in danger of being legislated, or Presidential Executive Ordered, completely out of existence.... will finally be able to put the issue of gun control into the easily understood concept that the only way the anti gunners, including Obama and his ilk, will be happy is when ALL GUNS OF ALL KINDS FOR ALL PEOPLE EXCEPT THE ELITE are outlawed.

(Please pay special attention to the portion in bold above.)

And to hide our guns at this time (which is what the OP was asking) in fear of public opinion would be sending the message that "we the people" who have the "right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" are allowing the fear of mere public opinion to cause us to abandon the right to bear arms... because we are so cowardly that the mere fear of public opinion would cause "we the people" to abandon "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"...............

..... and would be sending the message that even those who believe in the right to bear arms will allow public opinion to supersede the actual right to bear arms even further emboldening the anti gun faction, whether in the public sector or within government (including the very top office of the President), to push for even more restrictions upon the 2nd Amendment.

Agreed! I OC nearly every day (some days I don't leave the house, except to go to work, where I cannot possess). In fact, today was the first time I intentionally covered up in six months. Six months ago, I HAD to CC- it was the law of the state I was in. No choice there...

The more often people see normal people doing normal things while lawfully armed, the more they may come to understand that such a thing is also normal (and safe).

 

[MAC702]

Do you people NOT comprehend basic english? If doesn't really matter how you carry so long as you carry. That is the most important thing. ...

Before you get an attitude with me, please cite how I didn't comprehend English (which is capitalized, by the way.)

Just because both CC and OC are great, doesn't mean there isn't a politically (or otherwise) significant difference between the two, whether you are able to make use of it or not.

I make use of both forms of carry, depending on the circumstances. And I also recognize the difference between the two when doing so.

 

[Ezerharden]

The only difference between OC and CC is open or concealed. I don't know about you but my first and foremost reason to carry is self defense, not to "make a statement" If, when I OC it makes a statement, great, however if the situation is better suited for CC then CC it is. Your comment demeans CC as not being as valuable to the "movement" as OC. Well better look at the numbers. Look at how many times an person carrying OC has stopped a crime (besides LE that is) as opposed to how many CC have. Yes I know the OC is more of a deterrent, and I agree with that for the most part. Also look at how many people who CC you may alienate with your comments belittling the CC person. Remember, just as those that OC, CC'ers vote too. And there are a lot more CC people out there than OC.

I will state again, what I have said many times now (Here is the lack of understanding off English), the infighting between OC and CC is hurting us, not helping. Is OC more visible? yes, is it more important, no. Both are important, both are valuable, and both sides of the discussion need to come together, quit the testosterone contests and work toward protecting and advancing our combined rights TOGETHER.

I swear my nieces and nephews (between 4 and 7 years of age) understand working together better than some people here.

 

[MAC702]

Thank you for clarifying that your response to me was nothing more than a Strawman. I belittled no one. Carry on.

 

[Ezerharden]

Thank you for clarifying that your response to me was nothing more than a Strawman. I belittled no one. Carry on.

No strawman, sorry. Just my opinions posted in the Michigan section. Are you as opinionated in all other 48 states? And by insinuating that CC'ers were of no value, yes you did belittle people.

 

[MAC702]

... And by insinuating that cc'ers were of no value, yes you did belittle people.

Cite, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because if you can't back this up, you are lying about me.

 

[TheQ]

Ibtl!

 

[Ezerharden]

I didn't read that as being against concealed carry as a legal option, but recognizing it as one that publicly makes no statement about how good guys with guns are out there.

A concealed carrier looks like an unarmed person. The only time they impact society is when they very rarely do something stupid that drops their gun, or leaves it in a bathroom, or flashes it with bad timing; or, yes, actually have to use it (this part helps (usually)). Otherwise, they look just like the average unarmed sheep in the fold, perpetuating the normalcy of being unarmed.

And I completely agree.

Sounds like some pretty negative comments about CC'ers there. Plus the fact it is frequently stated that there are 350,000+ people with CPL's in this state speaks volumes regarding the number of "good guys with guns" out there.

Now back OT, no don't stop OC'ing because of recent developments, but don't get 20 people together to OC in a PFZ just to make a statement either. Carry as you normally do, and educate as best you can. Above all else, work together.

 

[Bronson]

Sounds like some pretty negative comments about CC'ers there.

Maybe to someone that can't understand the English language.

I didn't read that as being against concealed carry as a legal option, but recognizing it as one that publicly makes no statement about how good guys with guns are out there.

This is not negative, it is true. CC, by design, doesn't make a political or social statement.

A concealed carrier looks like an unarmed person.

Not negative, but true.

The only time they impact society is when they very rarely do something stupid that drops their gun, or leaves it in a bathroom, or flashes it with bad timing; or, yes, actually have to use it (this part helps (usually)).

Again, true. The fact that the guns are hidden means there is no political or social statement, hence not having an impact in those areas.

Otherwise, they look just like the average unarmed sheep in the fold, perpetuating the normalcy of being unarmed.

True again. When we hide our guns (and I do often, but we need to realize the pros and cons of whatever way we carry) it does nothing to normalize the idea of an armed citizenry to the part of society that doesn't carry a gun.

I see nothing derogatory in any of those statements.

Bronson

 

[MAC702]

Sounds like some pretty negative comments about CC'ers there...

As mentioned by another, no. Please show me how you think one of those phrases is negative.

And you didn't accuse me of having a negative comment. You accused me of saying that CC has "no value."

Back it up, or retract it, please.

 

[Ezerharden]

As mentioned by another, no. Please show me how you think one of those phrases is negative.

And you didn't accuse me of having a negative comment. You accused me of saying that CC has "no value."

Back it up, or retract it, please.

I have backed it up, just because one person agrees with your comments doesn't mean I was incorrect in my assessment of your comments as I read them.