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B.A.T.F.E. Rules on Medical Marijuana.

alphamale

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
215
Location
Michigan
Thats up to him, I wasn't the one who placed all those rules after his posts in a few threads, and I am not the one who Pm'd him suggesting I should ask him before I make comments about his actions. He did that in public so why should I cower in the corner and ask his permission privately or get his guidance. You may white washy what he does to keep the peace if you wish, but as long as his heavy hand stays off my back all is well. I still think he might try to start his own forum so he can order people around as he does here, who knows it might work for him. My attitude is directly proportionate to someones else's attitude given to me. You will discover that with me.

Than you for your concerns. :) So far I have had no one else brow beat, or make demands of me here so I am guessing by a number of peoples responses he bit off a bit much with a few people other than myself. So I am not alone in my frustration.


Whats said in PMs stays in PMs.

That said, I hope you two can kiss and make up. PD has been a considerable asset to both this forum, and OC in general, and your attitude and audacity can be a huge benefit to us all as well.
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
So my just joining makes you what? GOD? Why would a persons post count or time living on a forum make them any better than others? Your reasoning or lack thereof is quite telling. You actions are heavy handed, you attack people on a regular basis if you disagree with them, frankly you are a bit boorish. Some of us have a life outside a forum unlike you. I have watched this cluster f^^k go on for about two years now. And it's always the same couple of people who think they own the site and make demands and take it upon themselves to be little nazi's. You ask if I am shallow, and you ignore your shallow demanding behaviors dictating and brow beating people? You have NO clue who I am or what I do yet you make profane assumptions as to your importance compared to me and others here? Maybe you need to buy a mirror and take a look in it. I was not impressed with your little email telling me I should have PM'd you first as if to imply I needed your permission to post here. Here is some advice little man get off my back and do it quickly and dispense with your 4th grade PM's to me as of NOW! Just for the record slavery is illegal and you don't own me. Have a good day sir..

I have given you SUGGESTIONS, nothing more or nothing less via PM - don't like them, simply do not take them! Don't like that there are rules here on OCDO? Too damn bad - its private property! Don't like my postings? Simply put me on IGNORE and MOVE ON.

You made a GUESS AND ATTACKED ME based upon that, pretty shallow of you and I hope you are better than that. I base any assessment of you on your postings, certainly improvements can be made BY EVERYONE HERE - you are not alone in that.

My belief is that you do not know me, nor do you understand why I may be enacting a specific action. To date, I have been VERY SUCCESSFUL in my endeavors and there is ALWAYS a method to my "apparent madness".

BTW - you SUCK at Personal Attacks. If this is how you respond to someone on the internet, HOW will you respond to a Police Officer stepping on YOUR RIGHTS IN THE REAL WORLD WHILE OC'ING???
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
Thats up to him, I wasn't the one who placed all those rules after his posts in a few threads, and I am not the one who Pm'd him suggesting I should ask him before I make comments about his actions. He did that in public so why should I cower in the corner and ask his permission privately or get his guidance. You may white washy what he does to keep the peace if you wish, but as long as his heavy hand stays off my back all is well. I still think he might try to start his own forum so he can order people around as he does here, who knows it might work for him. My attitude is directly proportionate to someones else's attitude given to me. You will discover that with me.

Than you for your concerns. :) So far I have had no one else brow beat, or make demands of me here so I am guessing by a number of peoples responses he bit off a bit much with a few people other than myself. So I am not alone in my frustration.

I do like your screen name - quite telling!
 

alphamale

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
215
Location
Michigan
Who determines mental illness? Before this new CPL law it required a Judge, and not some College kid giving counseling at community mental health. So if a person looses their wife/husband to cancer and they seek counseling at a Michigan community mental health office for the grief and that untrained counselor who is NOT a medical Doctor makes notes in their file that the Liberal metal health counselor who has the life experience of a 21 year old writes a commentary that the person might be suicidal or something stupid like this, then they gun board gets a letter saying such, and one looses their gun rights?

Yes I have a problem with that insanity. I wonder what determines mental illness in this case? What happened to only a court could adjudicate one as mentally ill? I think we need to find out what is the process when the gun board would get a letter from community mental health saying something negative. Does anyone know? I am curious as if there are not safeguards will we see some day people being denied based on some college grads comments.


In MI mental illness is a disqualifier to receive a CPL though, and we must give permission for the county gun board to access medical and mental health records in order to obtain a CPL.

28.425b





Bronson
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
Whats said in PMs stays in PMs.

That said, I hope you two can kiss and make up. PD has been a considerable asset to both this forum, and OC in general, and your attitude and audacity can be a huge benefit to us all as well.

Is he violating YET ANOTHER OCDO FORUM RULE???

tactical_facepalm.jpg


You would think that after 2 years of LURKING, he could have at least read the FORUM Rules... :uhoh:
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Who determines mental illness? Before this new CPL law it required a Judge, and not some College kid giving counseling at community mental health. So if a person looses their wife/husband to cancer and they seek counseling at a Michigan community mental health office for the grief and that untrained counselor who is NOT a medical Doctor makes notes in their file that the Liberal metal health counselor who has the life experience of a 21 year old writes a commentary that the person might be suicidal or something stupid like this, then they gun board gets a letter saying such, and one looses their gun rights?

Yes I have a problem with that insanity. I wonder what determines mental illness in this case? What happened to only a court could adjudicate one as mentally ill? I think we need to find out what is the process when the gun board would get a letter from community mental health saying something negative. Does anyone know? I am curious as if there are not safeguards will we see some day people being denied based on some college grads comments.

What if someone had, or has anxiety or depression? What if they have been given pills before, or still?

This isnt about me, but many thousands of people have one or both of these problems, it's been said that every person alive goes through periods of anxiety or depression at some point in thier lives, so where is the line drawn or crossed? Both are treatable, both are cureable. So, why bar someone when they are 40 for a bout of depression they had when they were 22? Its possible they wouldnt even remember they had a problem unless it came up in a conversation. Perhaps it was after a pregnancy, or the death of a loved one. Could be any number of things.

If you're not a threat to yourself or others, it shouldnt be an issue.
 

fozzy71

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
921
Location
Roseville, Michigan, USA
What if someone had, or has anxiety or depression? What if they have been given pills before, or still?

None of those things qualify as a 'mental illness'.

This isnt about me, but many thousands of people have one or both of these problems, it's been said that every person alive goes through periods of anxiety or depression at some point in thier lives, so where is the line drawn or crossed?

Not sure where the line is drawn but anxiety/depression is not an issue according to the gun board meeting I attended.
 
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PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
Who determines mental illness? Before this new CPL law it required a Judge, and not some College kid giving counseling at community mental health. So if a person looses their wife/husband to cancer and they seek counseling at a Michigan community mental health office for the grief and that untrained counselor who is NOT a medical Doctor makes notes in their file that the Liberal metal health counselor who has the life experience of a 21 year old writes a commentary that the person might be suicidal or something stupid like this, then they gun board gets a letter saying such, and one looses their gun rights?

Yes I have a problem with that insanity. I wonder what determines mental illness in this case? What happened to only a court could adjudicate one as mentally ill? I think we need to find out what is the process when the gun board would get a letter from community mental health saying something negative. Does anyone know? I am curious as if there are not safeguards will we see some day people being denied based on some college grads comments.

I believe that the problem is the definition of "mental illness" and how that could possibly be construed in the future. Since the Medical Community seems insistent that "new and exciting" illnesses be "mental illnesses" so that to get additional focus for funding, our rights can continue to be eroded. I believe that the appropriate MCL's should be limited to be "adjudicated" cases that declines the CPL. There have been some who "got things squared away" and subsequently was able to obtain a CPL, but it was most likely a long and costly legal battle (do not remember the case specifics right now).

The following MI Attorney General Opinion at least provides some current guidance:

Opinion No. 7189 said:
The Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, MCL 28.421 et seq, does not confer on a county concealed weapon licensing board the power to make its own medical diagnosis of mental illness in the course of determining an applicant's eligibility for licensure under that act. However, a county concealed weapon licensing board has the authority to review records and other evidence in the course of fulfilling its responsibility to determine whether an applicant for a concealed pistol license has been diagnosed with a mental illness at the time the application is made.

...

The powers vested in the Board are described in the Act. Among these is the power to investigate an applicant to determine eligibility under the Act. MCL 28.425a(7). The Board is further authorized to access an applicant's medical and mental health records to aid in the eligibility determination.1 The Board is to determine whether the applicant has a "diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made." Nowhere in the Act is the Board granted the power to make its own diagnosis of mental illness, nor can any such power be reasonably inferred from those expressly granted.

While your question does not present a specific factual situation, three possible factual scenarios nevertheless emerge from the context of your question. Those include a case where a diagnosis of mental illness has been made by a health professional, a case where such a diagnosis has not been made, and a case where the existence of a diagnosis at the time the application is made is subject to a good faith factual dispute. If the evidence before the Board clearly establishes that the applicant has "a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made," the Board is bound by that determination. Likewise, if the evidence before the Board establishes that the applicant does not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made, the Board is bound by that circumstance.

Where the existence of an actual diagnosis is debatable, however, the Board has the responsibility under section 425b(7) to resolve that question.2 For example, if medical records indicate that an applicant suffers from symptoms consistent with a mental disorder but those records do not definitively resolve whether a diagnosis has been made, a question arises whether the Board may properly reach the requisite determination that the applicant "does not have a diagnosed mental illness." In this instance, while the Board members would be without authority to formulate their own diagnosis, the Board has the authority to further investigate the matter to resolve that question. MCL 28.425a(7).

It is also worth noting that the Board must deny a license to an applicant where, although the person has not been diagnosed with a mental illness at the time the concealed pistol license application is made, the Board has determined, based on clear and convincing evidence, that issuing the license is detrimental to the safety of the applicant or any other individual. MCL 28.425b(7)(n). In addition, even if an applicant does not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made, if that person has ever been found to be guilty but mentally ill of any crime, has offered a plea of not guilty of, or been acquitted of, any crime by reason of insanity, or has been the subject of an order of involuntary commitment due to mental illness, the application must be denied. MCL 28.425b(7)(j) and (k). Moreover, before issuing a license, the Board must determine that the applicant is not the subject of an order or disposition under section 464a of the Mental Health Code, MCL 330.1464a. MCL 28.425b(7)(d)(i). Further, if the applicant "has been adjudicated as a mental defective" or been committed to a mental institution, federal law prohibits that person from possessing a firearm, 18 USC 922 (g)(4), and the application should be denied.

It is my opinion, therefore, that the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, MCL 28.421 et seq, does not confer on a county concealed weapon licensing board the power to make its own medical diagnosis of mental illness in the course of determining an applicant's eligibility for licensure under that act. However, a county licensing board has the authority to review records and other evidence in the course of fulfilling its responsibility to determine whether an applicant for a concealed pistol license has been diagnosed with a mental illness at the time the application is made.

http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10265.htm

Search Site: http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/opinions.aspx
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
What if someone had, or has anxiety or depression? What if they have been given pills before, or still?

This isnt about me, but many thousands of people have one or both of these problems, it's been said that every person alive goes through periods of anxiety or depression at some point in thier lives, so where is the line drawn or crossed? Both are treatable, both are cureable. So, why bar someone when they are 40 for a bout of depression they had when they were 22? Its possible they wouldnt even remember they had a problem unless it came up in a conversation. Perhaps it was after a pregnancy, or the death of a loved one. Could be any number of things.

If you're not a threat to yourself or others, it shouldnt be an issue.

+1. Good post...
 

fozzy71

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
921
Location
Roseville, Michigan, USA
I thought they were both classified as such.

I admitted to having been treated for both anxiety and depression at my gun board meeting. I assumed they already knew and wanted to be truthful. I also admitted to a 20 year old marijuana possession misdemeanor charge. :uhoh:
 
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stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
I gave them a note from the Dr that said I wasnt currently under treatment for either, and that I wasnt a threat to myself or another person. I wasnt sure if they would issue a CPL or not.

ETA, I hope you're not going through either, its not easy.
 
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