Open carry is NOT legal at Walmart!

[AH.74]

Let's change this statement a touch just too see how acceptable it is:

"Not allowing jews in alcohol establishments is not really such a huge big deal anyway. It's certainly not the end of the world, which is what some of you make it sound like from your reactions."

Any infringement on freedoms, even for a purported good reason is an infringement on freedoms.

This is so preposterous that it is incredible you even think it's in the same playing field.

Equating racism with open carry laws is just about the stupidest thing I have heard in quite a while.

 

[WalkingWolf]

This is so preposterous that it is incredible you even think it's in the same playing field.

Equating racism with open carry laws is just about the stupidest thing I have heard in quite a while.

http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

This is so preposterous that it is incredible you even think it's in the same playing field.

Equating racism with open carry laws is just about the stupidest thing I have heard in quite a while.

Wow! Really? So.... the 2nd amendment is just a suggestion? We have some parts of the Constitution that are more important than others? Really?

So.... Since you are suggesting that it is a native American problem with alcohol and firearms, why don't they just make the law to say that native Americans can't have alcohol? Would that solve the problem without punishing us good Christian white folks who know how to responsibly drink and carry? (Please, I am making this argument to show how RIDICULOUS it is, not that I believe it).

 

[AH.74]

Wow! Really? So.... the 2nd amendment is just a suggestion? We have some parts of the Constitution that are more important than others? Really?

So.... Since you are suggesting that it is a native American problem with alcohol and firearms, why don't they just make the law to say that native Americans can't have alcohol? Would that solve the problem without punishing us good Christian white folks who know how to responsibly drink and carry? (Please, I am making this argument to show how RIDICULOUS it is, not that I believe it).

First of all, I don't go trolling into other state sub-forums, looking for arguments and indicating that I don't know at all what I'm talking about, as you have done here.

Second of all- I'll turn this back on you. REALLY? You think that the State of NM enacting its own laws designating how and where you can and can't carry is violating your constitutional rights? REALLY? What a crock.

The state can do what it wants as long as it is not violating the US Constitution. So far, the US Supreme Court has not indicated that it has done so. Nor has the NM Supreme Court.

Your argument is invalid.

And as far as your comment re: Native Americans and problems with guns, I never said that or suggested anything at all. What I did say was that this state has a history of alcohol issues. I used the Native American populations as an example, and only as such, to speculate as to why some of the laws may have been constructed as they are. Speculation, not accusation.

I have worked for a Government program and spent a good amount of time at all the central and northern NM tribes and pueblos. I have seen the ways of life firsthand. I have a former co-worker and friend who worked for the same program who is a full-blooded Navajo. I have spent time working that territory with her and visited her at her home village in the reservation.

At least my speculations have some base of experience. Yours?

Lastly, your use of the Jews in your analogy is particularly offensive. The Jews were slaughtered by the millions because another people thought they were sub-human. You couldn't think of a less offensive way to make your point?

 

[WalkingWolf]

Lastly, your use of the Jews in your analogy is particularly offensive. The Jews were slaughtered by the millions because another people thought they were sub-human. You couldn't think of a less offensive way to make your point?

Ever hear of the Trail of Tears? Ohhh I guess us drunk Indians had it so good. There was no reason absolutely at all to point a finger at any religious, sex, race, or heritage. It was bigoted it was racist and it was rude. Your defense of it just shows how deeply imbedded you are into it. I understand the misconceptions of alcoholism to gun laws. But it is more religious and of a racial nature but as the article you probably did not bother to read it was not related to NA, it was related to Hispanics and blacks. If you are going to spew racism you should at least know what you are talking about.

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

And as far as your comment re: Native Americans and problems with guns, I never said that or suggested anything at all. What I did say was that this state has a history of alcohol issues. I used the Native American populations as an example, and only as such, to speculate as to why some of the laws may have been constructed as they are. Speculation, not accusation.

Stereotypes are never good. As far as a state with alcohol problems, it's the white folk (I am one) in WI that have the issue. I personally drink very little but WI allows open carry in liquor stores and allows you to open carry in a bar as long as you have permission. You can even drink while carrying as long as you aren't 'materially impaired'. However, I wouldn't support a law that infringes on my rights just because a small part of the population mistreats something.

 

[castiel]

How about you all stop posting in this thread before it gets locked. I'm sick of trolls coming into the NM forum and messing up our forum..

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

How about you all stop posting in this thread before it gets locked. I'm sick of trolls coming into the NM forum and messing up our forum..

Wow! One of your own is a racist and you call me a troll?

 

[wrightme]

How about you all stop posting in this thread before it gets locked. I'm sick of trolls coming into the NM forum and messing up our forum..

It is a topic in an internet forum that isn't limited by state. The subject is about a state, but there isn't any restriction from others posting here. That doesn't make out-of-staters into trolls.


Sometimes, an outside view is very helpful, as it assists in breaking out of the "we've always done it that way" view of your local oddities.

 

[WalkingWolf]

How about you all stop posting in this thread before it gets locked. I'm sick of trolls coming into the NM forum and messing up our forum..

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted". While the word troll and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels subjective, with trolling describing intentionally provocative actions outside of an online context. For example, mass media uses troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[5][6]

This state has a history of alcohol issues, especially when it comes to the Native American populations.

Fairly easy to see who fits the description of a troll. I see no other reason for posting racist remarks, unless that person is a racist. I think most who defend and attack the population that finds racism offensive to probably live under a bridge also.

 

[wrightme]

Fairly easy to see who fits the description of a troll. I see no other reason for posting racist remarks, unless that person is a racist. I think most who defend and attack the population that finds racism offensive to probably live under a bridge also.

Native american populations DO have alcoholism difficulties, as do the populations of Eskimos and other natives in Alaska. Is it racist to point that out? No.

Neither is it racist to point out that many americans used to own slaves, which were predominantly black.

Those are simple facts. Acting towards either group differently because of it might be racist.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Native american populations DO have alcoholism difficulties, as do the populations of Eskimos and other natives in Alaska. Is it racist to point that out? No.

Neither is it racist to point out that many americans used to own slaves, which were predominantly black.

Those are simple facts. Acting towards either group differently because of it might be racist.

As well as White, African American, Chinese American, Japanese American, and so on. To single out a single group especially when the history of gun control laws do not point to Native Americans but to blacks and Hispanics. The use of gun control to hinder any group is racist, to defend it when clearly knowing it is bogus and wrong is bigoted if not racist in itself. There are no excuses for violating constitutional rights and there are no excuses for racism.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Alcohol-Related Deaths and Hospitalizations by Race, Gender, and Age in
California
Mandy Stahre*,1 and Michele Simon2

Information on race and ethnicity of decedents was
provided in the 2006 California Death Statistical Master File.
Several steps had to be utilized to determine the appropriate
race and ethnicity for each decedent due to varying methods
used by counties in California to identify race and ethnicity.
Race was collapsed into the minimum racial categories
established in the 1997 OMB Standard for Federal Data on
Race and Ethnicity [16]. We used the following categories
for race: white, black/African American, Asian, Native
Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, American Indian or
Alaskan Native and other. Since a person could choose up to
three races, only the first race code was used. For ethnicity,
all the subcategories of Hispanic ethnicity were combined
into one category of Hispanic ethnicity. The final
racial/ethnic distributions for the 2006 death data for
California were as follows: 83.6% white, 9.9% black, 5.4%
Asian, 2.3% Native Hawaiian/PI, 0.5% American Indian

Study after study puts Hispanics and whites above other ethnic groups when it relates to alcoholism and alcohol related numbers. Both in numbers and percentages. It only takes some research to find that Native Americans rate well below Whites. So it would seem if blame is to be place it should be put squarely on the Caucasian male population.

I will also point out that until the Europeans came to America we had no problem with alcoholism, and some diseases. There is simple solution to disdain for us Native Americans, Get Off Our Land!

 

[castiel]

This thread is supposed to be about the legality of open carrying inside Walmart in the state of New Mexico. Everyone posting about racism and native americans and whites and everything else is OFF TOPIC AND TROLLING.

 

[Venator]

This is so preposterous that it is incredible you even think it's in the same playing field.

Equating racism with open carry laws is just about the stupidest thing I have heard in quite a while.

Man do you need a history lesson. Check out the black panthers and OC in California. Check out concealed carry and OC laws in Michigan after Dr. Ossian Sweet case. Racism is the root of almost all gun control laws.

 

[WalkingWolf]

This thread is supposed to be about the legality of open carrying inside Walmart in the state of New Mexico. Everyone posting about racism and native americans and whites and everything else is OFF TOPIC AND TROLLING.

I thought this was about the restriction of carry because of alcohol sales. Another member injected the blame on Native Americans, it should have never been brought up in the first place. But when such a false statement is made it is my right to defend my heritage against such claims. Calling me a troll and ignoring the person that made the claim, and those that defend it is trolling. If people will stop pointing fingers I would be more than happy to drop it. Now for the OP~

My stand is it is a violation of the Constitution both because it interferes with the second amendment and also interferes with the property rights of Walmart to decide for themselves who is allowed and who is not.

 

[wrightme]

As well as White, African American, Chinese American, Japanese American, and so on. To single out a single group especially when the history of gun control laws do not point to Native Americans but to blacks and Hispanics. The use of gun control to hinder any group is racist, to defend it when clearly knowing it is bogus and wrong is bigoted if not racist in itself. There are no excuses for violating constitutional rights and there are no excuses for racism.

1) The Native American alcoholism reference was presented as an example of what might have driven that specific law. It is not racist to point that out as a possibility.
2) It is accurate to state that some gun control was geared to prevent african americans from carrying firearms. It is not racist to point that out.
3) No post that I read even came close to defend such racist practices in legislative actions. Do you have a post you can point out that you feel does defend such?

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

1) The Native American alcoholism reference was presented as an example of what might have driven that specific law. It is not racist to point that out as a possibility.
2) It is accurate to state that some gun control was geared to prevent african americans from carrying firearms. It is not racist to point that out.
3) No post that I read even came close to defend such racist practices in legislative actions. Do you have a post you can point out that you feel does defend such?

I would beg to differ with you on # 3. From post # 29.

This state has a history of alcohol issues, especially when it comes to the Native American populations. There are several of those, some of them much larger than almost anywhere else. I believe that had a lot to do with the way the laws were considered for construction.

 

[wrightme]

Alcohol-Related Deaths and Hospitalizations by Race, Gender, and Age in
California
Mandy Stahre*,1 and Michele Simon2

Information on race and ethnicity of decedents was
provided in the 2006 California Death Statistical Master File.
Several steps had to be utilized to determine the appropriate
race and ethnicity for each decedent due to varying methods
used by counties in California to identify race and ethnicity.
Race was collapsed into the minimum racial categories
established in the 1997 OMB Standard for Federal Data on
Race and Ethnicity [16]. We used the following categories
for race: white, black/African American, Asian, Native
Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, American Indian or
Alaskan Native and other. Since a person could choose up to
three races, only the first race code was used. For ethnicity,
all the subcategories of Hispanic ethnicity were combined
into one category of Hispanic ethnicity. The final
racial/ethnic distributions for the 2006 death data for
California were as follows: 83.6% white, 9.9% black, 5.4%
Asian, 2.3% Native Hawaiian/PI, 0.5% American Indian

Study after study puts Hispanics and whites above other ethnic groups when it relates to alcoholism and alcohol related numbers. Both in numbers and percentages. It only takes some research to find that Native Americans rate well below Whites. So it would seem if blame is to be place it should be put squarely on the Caucasian male population.I will also point out that until the Europeans came to America we had no problem with alcoholism, and some diseases. There is simple solution to disdain for us Native Americans, Get Off Our Land!

What is the breakdown by population, with the corresponding rate for each population?

Do you deny that native american populations DO have difficulties with alcoholism? To the point that many Native American towns in Alaska completely BAN alcohol?


Raw death rates are not useful in determining what segment of a population has some level of difficulty.

 

[wrightme]

I would beg to differ with you on # 3. From post # 29.

That does not support or defend such act, it only says that such was possibly the case.