9 Articles - 10 years later

[eastmeyers]

http://topics.mlive.com/tag/concealed handguns/index.html

Ten years after Shall issue passes.

 

[eastmeyers]

What is funny, is before these "articles" came out, they had an article describing, that they were doing this series. In that article, they claimed it would not be bias in anyway. It would be fair.

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/michigans_concealed_gun_law_10.html

 

[Bikenut]

Here comes a rant.....

I don't see anything unexpected here... but then I've been seeing a larger picture for quite some time...

Consider....

In order to disarm America all that is necessary is to get people to think that a permit is needed to carry a pistol. And to help make that happen all that is necessary is to bury the actual right under super restrictive laws concerning where, when, why, and who, can carry a gun without having a permit.... but making where, when, why, and who, much easier as long as a person has a permit.

And that has largely been successful so far since very few people know that openly carrying a sidearm without any kind of permit to do so is not only currently legal in Michigan but has been legal since 1827! But there are already many restrictive laws concerning who, when, and where, a person can openly carry.... but having a concealed carry permit makes all that much easier.

And this stealth process has been successful since many people have come to think that having a concealed carry permit actually is having the right to bear arms.

So.... once folks think that a permit is required all that is necessary is to attack the permit system and show that it is flawed... and, by extension, the permits and the people who have them are also flawed.

Once it can be shown that the process, the system, of issuing permits is flawed then it becomes obvious that different and more strict controls are necessary.

Thus begins the process of making it so difficult to qualify for, or to be able to afford, a permit only the very elite will be able to satisfy the requirements, the qualifications, and the price tag to get a permit.

And that will be the end of Joe and Jane Average being able to "bear arms".

And who best but the media to push this agenda of pricing/restricting the average person out of having a permit... and thereby stopping the average person from carrying a gun?

 

[Haman J.T.]

Here comes a rant.....

I don't see anything unexpected here... but then I've been seeing a larger picture for quite some time...

Consider....

In order to disarm America all that is necessary is to get people to think that a permit is needed to carry a pistol. And to help make that happen all that is necessary is to bury the actual right under super restrictive laws concerning where, when, why, and who, can carry a gun without having a permit.... but making where, when, why, and who, much easier as long as a person has a permit.

And that has largely been successful so far since very few people know that openly carrying a sidearm without any kind of permit to do so is not only currently legal in Michigan but has been legal since 1827! But there are already many restrictive laws concerning who, when, and where, a person can openly carry.... but having a concealed carry permit makes all that much easier.

And this stealth process has been successful since many people have come to think that having a concealed carry permit actually is having the right to bear arms.

So.... once folks think that a permit is required all that is necessary is to attack the permit system and show that it is flawed... and, by extension, the permits and the people who have them are also flawed.

Once it can be shown that the process, the system, of issuing permits is flawed then it becomes obvious that different and more strict controls are necessary.

Thus begins the process of making it so difficult to qualify for, or to be able to afford, a permit only the very elite will be able to satisfy the requirements, the qualifications, and the price tag to get a permit.

And that will be the end of Joe and Jane Average being able to "bear arms".

And who best but the media to push this agenda of pricing/restricting the average person out of having a permit... and thereby stopping the average person from carrying a gun?

Thats why the lib media use Goebbels strategy(lie often enough that it becomes truth)! Thats why we continue our fight to educate our fellow citizens of their rights and THE TRUTH! CARRY ON!

 

[DrTodd]

One of the things the authors of this series seem to be saying is that the data required by law is not being sent to the state. If that is truly a problem, then it has absolutely nothing to do with those who have a permit, rather with the prosecutors of the various counties.
Also, they seem to be concerned that names of people convicted of certain crimes are not being passed on to the state... big deal. So a person sitting in prison hasn't had their permit revoked... it's not like they have a pistol in their cell and besides, they did acknowledge that they often don't revoke the permit until the person is released when they are putting conditions on their parole or probation... once again, not a big deal. I also noticed that two different articles lamented the little amount of money from the permit fee each county gets does not cover the counties costs. This is easily fixed, let everyone carry openly or concealed everywhere without any permit requirement, then the counties wouldn't need to worry about covering their costs.

 

[onestar 50]

There was a law on the books that made open carry legal in Mich. but They took it off and replaced it with hunting law that once my senator to me long ago.

 

[autosurgeon]

There was a law on the books that made open carry legal in Mich. but They took it off and replaced it with hunting law that once my senator to me long ago.

What law? The only Law that has ever been on the books in regards to OC is Article 1 Section 6

 

[onestar 50]

That may be the law But I know it was on the book at one time and when I called my senator and asked him about open carried before Michigan changes their ccw law. He said they took it off and replace it with a hunting law.

 

[mastiff69]

Onestar 50
There was a law on the books that made open carry legal in Mich. but They took it off and replaced it with hunting law that once my senator to me long ago.

Could you please Cite where the regs are at, or where we can find that old MCL as i would like to see it, as it might be good to get back on the Books again !

 

[Venator]

That may be the law But I know it was on the book at one time and when I called my senator and asked him about open carried before Michigan changes their ccw law. He said they took it off and replace it with a hunting law.

Pure misinformation.

If I had a dollar for every wrong question I received fro a government Representative or Senator, I would have....well I would have a lot of dollars.

 

[onestar 50]

I wrote my senator last night and waiting for an answer from him.

 

[Bikenut]

Onestar 50
There was a law on the books that made open carry legal in Mich. but They took it off and replaced it with hunting law that once my senator to me long ago.

Could you please Cite where the regs are at, or where we can find that old MCL as i would like to see it, as it might be good to get back on the Books again !

No.. no .. no ... no... absolutely NO! it would not be good to get any law that states OC is legal..... Please allow me to explain....

Laws do NOT tell us what is legal... it tells us what the penalties are for doing something the law says is illegal.

We already have the gun control inspired very worst sort of infringement on the right to bear arms possible... called a CC permit.... that makes it illegal to carry a concealed gun unless a person meets the criteria, requirements, and can afford.... the permission from the government called a CC permit.

We don't need to give legislators the chance, or even the idea, to create a permit system for OC too!!!

The absence of any law that says OC is illegal IS what makes OC legal. In short.... if there isn't any law that says a thing is illegal ... then by default... it is legal. There is no need to have a law to make it legal... it already is.

While some folks might "feel" better if they had a law that says when, where, who, and how OC would be legal because the law gives them permission like we have with that horrible infringement called a CC permit... the very fact that there would be a law that restricts OC means the right to bear arms just got infringed and went out the window in favor of a law that every son of a gun for miles around would want to be in on deciding the who, when, where, why,.....

And y'all better believe that any law would NOT come out the way we would want it but would be loaded with ways for the government to control OC.

 

[autosurgeon]

I agree with Bikenut!!!!!!!! We don't need no stinkin law!!!

 

[PDinDetroit]

I agree with Bikenut!!!!!!!! We don't need no stinkin law!!!

I believe that we already have this law other than Article I Section 6 of the MI Constitution.

28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresidents; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.

Sec. 2.

(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.
...

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-422

 

[CoonDog]

MCL 28.422 and 750.234d are the open carry laws in MI.

 

[Bronson]

MCL 28.422 and 750.234d are the open carry laws in MI.

That's the way I see it. In the same way that 28.425b and 28.425o detail a licensing scheme and list of places where licensees may not concealed carry, respectively, so too do 28.422 and 750.234d function for open carry.

This is why I was confused when Judge Aquilina stated that concealed carry was different because there was legislation that regulated CC while there wasn't similar regulating legislation for OC.

Bronson

 

[Venator]

I wrote my senator last night and waiting for an answer from him.

I just wrote that almost all of them are wrong and you want to write one to get what a "right" answer?

Who is your senator, I may know him/her? Never mind it's Richardville. Good luck.

 

[PDinDetroit]

That's the way I see it. In the same way that 28.425b and 28.425o detail a licensing scheme and list of places where licensees may not concealed carry, respectively, so too do 28.422 and 750.234d function for open carry.

This is why I was confused when Judge Aquilina stated that concealed carry was different because there was legislation that regulated CC while there wasn't similar regulating legislation for OC.

Bronson

I believe Judge Aquilina to be confused on multiple points. More will be revealed come appeal time...

 

[jmlefler]

" If that is truly a problem, then it has absolutely nothing to do with those who have a permit, rather with the prosecutors of the various counties."
.

The 'journalists' appear to have missed the most basic element of their investigation: our government officials are incompetent! No quotes from the 'offending' county gun boards, no investigation into why they didn't send in the 'state mandated' reports and who, by name, is responsible. There was, however, a story about an older woman scaring off an attacker by exposing her firearm. They did quote an 'expert' who claimed that there are no more than 100,000 annual instances of a gun being used to deter a crime, and not going reported Hmmmm, that's 274 times PER DAY, or once every 6 MINUTES! Other groups maintain that the number is significantly higher. Why anyone would remove this ability for citizens to defend themselves every 6 minutes is beyond me.

Carry on

 

[xmanhockey7]

Reading my signature at the bottom tells you exactly what I think about having to get a permit.