Dearborn Heights City Libraries Patron Conduct Policy

[FatboyCykes]

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Welcome a2fireball! Way to start with a bang!

Get it?

 

[a2fireball]

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Thanks! I didn't know about opencarry.org or the open carry movement until recently. In fact it was last year's open carry picnic in Ann Arbor that first got my attention.

 

[a2fireball]

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I received this reply today. I am not a lawyer, so I'm not sure if it is true that a district library is not a "local unit of government".

Anyone? What is the best definition of a local unit of government in Michigan?




"Dear Mr. Clancy,
The Library received your email of June 7, 2009, and your request that the Library policy regarding weapons on library premises be amended within 90 days to comply with MCL 123.1102. Please be advised that, as a district library organized pursuant to P.A. 24 of 1989, the Ann Arbor District Library is not a "local unit of government" subject to MCL 123.1101 et seq.




Sincerely,


Josie Parker
Director
Ann Arbor District Library
343 S. Fifth Avenue
Ann Arbor, MI 48105 "


a2fireball wrote:

Ann Arbor District Library has a similar policy.



I "borrowed" some too. I sent the following to the director of the Ann Arbor District Library:

Dear Ms. Parker,

While browsing the Ann Arbor District Library website, I notice the
following in the Policies section.

"Bans all weapons from Library premises, except for concealed weapons
that are exempt from licensure under Michigan law or lawfully licensed
and carried in compliance with Act 372 of 1927, as amended."

While this policy exempts concealed weapons, it is still in conflict
with Michigan law, as openly carrying a firearm in a holster is legal.
A law abiding citizen who desires to carry a pistol would be
discriminated against while wishing to use the services and facilities
of the Ann Arbor District Library.

Under the 1990 state preemption law (MCL 123.1102, outlined in brief
below), this policy is unenforceable in regard to firearm possession and
transport. Furthermore, the existence of this ordinance, being in
conflict with the law of the State of Michigan, is misleading to the
people of Ann Arbor and other citizens who may visit the Library.

The Ann Arbor District Library and its administrators could be held
liable for civil rights violations if this policy is enforced.

A federal civil rights lawsuit has been filed in a similar situation in
Grand Haven, MI.
http://www.grandhaventribune.com/paid/307858790890277.bsp

Any law abiding citizen of the State of Michigan who owns a safety
inspected handgun may openly carry (in a holster) said firearm in all
places not explicitly exempt by law with or without a CPL. Infringing
on this right is a clear violation of both state and federal law.

Libraries have challenged this and lost, one case recently in Ferndale,
MI. There is a similar matter being examined in Dearborn Heights, MI as
well.

Library patrons such as myself, who openly carry a pistol, have a clear
legal right to do so on public property.

I fear that if I am openly carrying a pistol in accordance with state
law in the Ann Arbor District Library, I will be harassed, detained or
otherwise interfered with.

As an Ann Arbor resident, I am requesting this policy be amended within
90 days to comply with MCL 123.1102. Failure to amend this ordinance
could be considered an act of malfeasance as it willfully misinforms the
public of what is and is not allowed in the libraries of the City of Ann
Arbor. I look forward to your resolution and response when this policy
is amended.

I would be most grateful to hear back from you on this matter.

Sincerely,

Patrick J Clancy

 

[EM87]

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Is it a public library run by the city? If so, preemption applies because it's a part of the city.

 

[EM87]

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I looked at the website and tried searching the internet, but I couldn't find any information on who runs the library. Anyone know how to find out?

 

[a2fireball]

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EM87 wrote:

Is it a public library run by the city? If so, preemption applies because it's a part of the city.

This is where it get into a grey area for me....according to the Ann Arbor District Library website:
"
"ANN ARBOR DISTRICT LIBRARY
BOARD OF TRUSTEES
BYLAWS
ARTICLE I
NAME AND LOCATION
1.1 Authority. This organization was formed by Agreement between Ann Arbor Public Schools and the City of Ann Arbor, dated November 1, 1995 (the “Agreement”). For purposes of these Bylaws, the Ann Arbor Public Schools and the City of Ann Arbor may each be referred to as a Participating Municipality in accordance with Section 2 of the District Library Establishment Act, Michigan Compiled Laws Annotated §397.171 et seq. (the “Act”). The language of the statutes used is as it exists on the date of the revised Bylaws; any amendments to the statutes supersede the text of the Bylaws."


So is it part of the City of Ann Arbor anymore, (in regard to Michigan firearms law?)?

 

[zigziggityzoo]

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They cite their power to enforce rules from:

CITY, VILLAGE, AND TOWNSHIP LIBRARIES (EXCERPT)
Act 164 of 1877


397.206 City library; free use; regulations.
Sec. 6.

Every library and reading room established under this act shall be forever free to the use of the inhabitants where located, always subject to such reasonable rules and regulations as the library board may adopt; and said board may exclude from the use of said library and reading room any and all persons who shall wilfully violate such rules.

The problem, I suppose is this:

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-397-177

397.177 District library as authority.
Sec. 7.

A district library established pursuant to this act constitutes an authority under section 6 of article IX of the state constitution of 1963.

Aaand Section 6, Article IX states:

§ 6 Real and tangible personal property; limitation on general ad valorem taxes; adoption and alteration of separate tax limitations; exceptions to limitations; property tax on school district extending into 2 or more counties.

Section 6. Except as otherwise provided in this constitution, the total amount of general ad valorem taxes imposed upon real and tangible personal property for all purposes in any one year shall not exceed 15 mills on each dollar of the assessed valuation of property as finally equalized. Under procedures provided by law, which shall guarantee the right of initiative, separate tax limitations for any county and for the townships and for school districts therein, the aggregate of which shall not exceed 18 mills on each dollar of such valuation, may be adopted and thereafter altered by the vote of a majority of the qualified electors of such county voting thereon, in lieu of the limitation hereinbefore established. These limitations may be increased to an aggregate of not to exceed 50 mills on each dollar of valuation, for a period of not to exceed 20 years at any one time, if approved by a majority of the electors, qualified under Section 6 of Article II of this constitution, voting on the question.

The foregoing limitations shall not apply to taxes imposed for the payment of principal and interest on bonds approved by the electors or other evidences of indebtedness approved by the electors or for the payment of assessments or contract obligations in anticipation of which bonds are issued approved by the electors, which taxes may be imposed without limitation as to rate or amount; or, subject to the provisions of Section 25 through 34 of this article, to taxes imposed for any other purpose by any city, village, charter county, charter township, charter authority or other authority, the tax limitations of which are provided by charter or by general law.

In any school district which extends into two or more counties, property taxes at the highest rate available in the county which contains the greatest part of the area of the district may be imposed and collected for school purposes throughout the district.

The problem here is that a "District Library" is granted authority similar to a school district, and in the Gov'ts eyes, is exactly the same as a school district.

Therefore, MCL 123.1102 doesn't apply.

 

[Venator]

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Check and see if the Ferdale library is a district library. If it is then the courts think otherwise.

 

[Venator]

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zigziggityzoo wrote:

They cite their power to enforce rules from:

CITY, VILLAGE, AND TOWNSHIP LIBRARIES (EXCERPT)
Act 164 of 1877


397.206 City library; free use; regulations.
Sec. 6.

Every library and reading room established under this act shall be forever free to the use of the inhabitants where located, always subject to such reasonable rules and regulations as the library board may adopt; and said board may exclude from the use of said library and reading room any and all persons who shall wilfully violate such rules.

The problem, I suppose is this:

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-397-177

397.177 District library as authority.
Sec. 7.

A district library established pursuant to this act constitutes an authority under section 6 of article IX of the state constitution of 1963.

Aaand Section 6, Article IX states:

§ 6 Real and tangible personal property; limitation on general ad valorem taxes; adoption and alteration of separate tax limitations; exceptions to limitations; property tax on school district extending into 2 or more counties.

Section 6. Except as otherwise provided in this constitution, the total amount of general ad valorem taxes imposed upon real and tangible personal property for all purposes in any one year shall not exceed 15 mills on each dollar of the assessed valuation of property as finally equalized. Under procedures provided by law, which shall guarantee the right of initiative, separate tax limitations for any county and for the townships and for school districts therein, the aggregate of which shall not exceed 18 mills on each dollar of such valuation, may be adopted and thereafter altered by the vote of a majority of the qualified electors of such county voting thereon, in lieu of the limitation hereinbefore established. These limitations may be increased to an aggregate of not to exceed 50 mills on each dollar of valuation, for a period of not to exceed 20 years at any one time, if approved by a majority of the electors, qualified under Section 6 of Article II of this constitution, voting on the question.

The foregoing limitations shall not apply to taxes imposed for the payment of principal and interest on bonds approved by the electors or other evidences of indebtedness approved by the electors or for the payment of assessments or contract obligations in anticipation of which bonds are issued approved by the electors, which taxes may be imposed without limitation as to rate or amount; or, subject to the provisions of Section 25 through 34 of this article, to taxes imposed for any other purpose by any city, village, charter county, charter township, charter authority or other authority, the tax limitations of which are provided by charter or by general law.

In any school district which extends into two or more counties, property taxes at the highest rate available in the county which contains the greatest part of the area of the district may be imposed and collected for school purposes throughout the district.

The problem here is that a "District Library" is granted authority similar to a school district, and in the Gov'ts eyes, is exactly the same as a school district.

Therefore, MCL 123.1102 doesn't apply.

Schools have separate lawsin regards toCEZ, a library doesn't. This needs to be looked into more.

 

[Veritas]

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Venator wrote:

Check and see if the Ferdale library is a district library. If it is then the courts think otherwise.

I haven't confirmed either way, but a quick run through of their respective websites (Ferndale and Ann Arbor) indicate different sTLD's (Top-Level Domain). For instance, Ferndale's library is a sponsored TLD (.gov.mi) while A2 is non-sponsored (.org). The lack of a sponsored TLD does not always indicate that it's not government owned (I've seen municipal sites with .com), but it's a decent indicator that something may be "different".

 

[DrTodd]

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Veritas wrote:

Venator wrote:

Check and see if the Ferdale library is a district library. If it is then the courts think otherwise.

I haven't confirmed either way, but a quick run through of their respective websites (Ferndale and Ann Arbor) indicate different sTLD's (Top-Level Domain). For instance, Ferndale's library is a sponsored TLD (.gov.mi) while A2 is non-sponsored (.org). The lack of a sponsored TLD does not always indicate that it's not government owned (I've seen municipal sites with .com), but it's a decent indicator that something may be "different".

Ferndale is a city library, Ann Arbor is a District library. If the district were organized by two cities, there would be no problem. That is not the case: the library was organized by both the city and the school district. Since the preemption law does NOT mention either schools or library districts as "local units of governments" (city, village, township, or county only) I believe we are out of luck on this one.

However, that is not to say that it would be considered a "school" as defined in the Concealed Carry Act. Under the CCA,

(a) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.
(b) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

Therefore, I am not giving legal advice and this is my "nonprofessional opinion", possession and carry are NOT preempted by the state but, the positive is that you would not be violating the firearms law by OCing w/out a permit. You may just be asked to leave and if you don't, you could be charged with trespass. Just my unofficial opinion, though....

 

[a2fireball]

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DrTodd wrote:

Veritas wrote:

Venator wrote:

Check and see if the Ferdale library is a district library. If it is then the courts think otherwise.

I haven't confirmed either way, but a quick run through of their respective websites (Ferndale and Ann Arbor) indicate different sTLD's (Top-Level Domain). For instance, Ferndale's library is a sponsored TLD (.gov.mi) while A2 is non-sponsored (.org). The lack of a sponsored TLD does not always indicate that it's not government owned (I've seen municipal sites with .com), but it's a decent indicator that something may be "different".

Ferndale is a city library, Ann Arbor is a District library. If the district were organized by two cities, there would be no problem. That is not the case: the library was organized by both the city and the school district. Since the preemption law does NOT mention either schools or library districts as "local units of governments" (city, village, township, or county only) I believe we are out of luck on this one.

However, that is not to say that it would be considered a "school" as defined in the Concealed Carry Act. Under the CCA,

(a) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.
(b) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

Therefore, I am not giving legal advice and this is my "nonprofessional opinion", possession and carry are NOT preempted by the state but, the positive is that you would not be violating the firearms law by OCing w/out a permit. You may just be asked to leave and if you don't, you could be charged with trespass. Just my unofficial opinion, though....

I think you summed it up well. I will thank the director for her prompt reply, (without either agreeing or disagreeing) and go from there.

 

[Venator]

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DrTodd wrote:

Veritas wrote:

Venator wrote:

Check and see if the Ferdale library is a district library. If it is then the courts think otherwise.

I haven't confirmed either way, but a quick run through of their respective websites (Ferndale and Ann Arbor) indicate different sTLD's (Top-Level Domain). For instance, Ferndale's library is a sponsored TLD (.gov.mi) while A2 is non-sponsored (.org). The lack of a sponsored TLD does not always indicate that it's not government owned (I've seen municipal sites with .com), but it's a decent indicator that something may be "different".

Ferndale is a city library, Ann Arbor is a District library. If the district were organized by two cities, there would be no problem. That is not the case: the library was organized by both the city and the school district. Since the preemption law does NOT mention either schools or library districts as "local units of governments" (city, village, township, or county only) I believe we are out of luck on this one.

However, that is not to say that it would be considered a "school" as defined in the Concealed Carry Act. Under the CCA,

(a) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.
(b) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

Therefore, I am not giving legal advice and this is my "nonprofessional opinion", possession and carry are NOT preempted by the state but, the positive is that you would not be violating the firearms law by OCing w/out a permit. You may just be asked to leave and if you don't, you could be charged with trespass. Just my unofficial opinion, though....

I'm just worried that every city will now form an authorityand get around preemption. I'd don't think that is the intent of the preemption law. More research is needed.

 

[DrTodd]

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Venator wrote:

DrTodd wrote:

Veritas wrote:

Venator wrote:

Check and see if the Ferdale library is a district library. If it is then the courts think otherwise.

I haven't confirmed either way, but a quick run through of their respective websites (Ferndale and Ann Arbor) indicate different sTLD's (Top-Level Domain). For instance, Ferndale's library is a sponsored TLD (.gov.mi) while A2 is non-sponsored (.org). The lack of a sponsored TLD does not always indicate that it's not government owned (I've seen municipal sites with .com), but it's a decent indicator that something may be "different".

Ferndale is a city library, Ann Arbor is a District library. If the district were organized by two cities, there would be no problem. That is not the case: the library was organized by both the city and the school district. Since the preemption law does NOT mention either schools or library districts as "local units of governments" (city, village, township, or county only) I believe we are out of luck on this one.

However, that is not to say that it would be considered a "school" as defined in the Concealed Carry Act. Under the CCA,

(a) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.
(b) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

Therefore, I am not giving legal advice and this is my "nonprofessional opinion", possession and carry are NOT preempted by the state but, the positive is that you would not be violating the firearms law by OCing w/out a permit. You may just be asked to leave and if you don't, you could be charged with trespass. Just my unofficial opinion, though....

I'm just worried that every city will now form an authorityand get around preemption. I'd don't think that is the intent of the preemption law. More research is needed.

I'll look into it, I've got a very nasty flu bug right now so my ability to do much of anything is pretty limited.

Just to add, I assume that if the authority were created by two cities, then the firearms regulations would be preempted by state law. It's the fact that it is formed by both a city and a school district that I "believe" that preemption would not apply. So, if your fear is that two cities, a city and a county, or any other combination of municipalities listed in the preemption statute were to try to form "district"s to get around the state's preemption of the firearms law, I don't think it would work because the authorizing entities are explicitly mentioned.
Just my humble opinion and, as I think you are wisely stating, this is a question that probably needs to be researched further.

 

[ISMOID]

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Just checked my email and found this:

Hello

Our policy has been modified to better reflect current law. It now reads:

The following behavior is not acceptable:
"Carrying or displaying firearms or dangerous weapons of any kind except as permitted by law."

Let me know if you have any further questions and thank you for your interest.

MPM

--
Michael Mccaffery
Director
Dearborn Heights City Libraries
24590 George St.
Dearborn Heights, MI 48127
313-791-3800
mmccaffery@ci.dearborn-heights.mi.us

 

[Veritas]

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ISMOID wrote:

Just checked my email and found this:

Hello

Our policy has been modified to better reflect current law. It now reads:

The following behavior is not acceptable:
"Carrying or displaying firearms or dangerous weapons of any kind except as permitted by law."

Let me know if you have any further questions and thank you for your interest.

MPM

--
Michael Mccaffery
Director
Dearborn Heights City Libraries
24590 George St.
Dearborn Heights, MI 48127
313-791-3800
mmccaffery@ci.dearborn-heights.mi.us

I think that's a win. It seems the library director may be a little more proactive than the city mayor?

 

[FatboyCykes]

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Nice! Well done!

 

[Generaldet]

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Good job!

 

[DanM]

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a2fireball wrote:

I received this reply today. I am not a lawyer, so I'm not sure if it is true that a district library is not a "local unit of government".

Anyone? What is the best definition of a local unit of government in Michigan?

"Dear Mr. Clancy,
The Library received your email of June 7, 2009, and your request that the Library policy regarding weapons on library premises be amended within 90 days to comply with MCL 123.1102. Please be advised that, as a district library organized pursuant to P.A. 24 of 1989, the Ann Arbor District Library is not a "local unit of government" subject to MCL 123.1101 et seq.

Josie Parker
Director
Ann Arbor District Library
343 S. Fifth Avenue
Ann Arbor, MI 48105 "

I am not an attorney. The following is my layman's opinion from reading MCL:

A district librarymay not be a "local unit of government" itself, but if it includes among its parties"public agencies" as defined in Act 7 of 1967 (the "Urban Cooperation Act of 1967"), then it may be subject to the limitations of that act.

From Act 7 of 1967:

"124.502 Definitions.



Sec. 2.

. . . (e) “Public agency” means a political subdivision of this state or of another state of the United States or of Canada, including, but not limited to, a state government; a county, city, village, township, charter township, . . ."

A county, city, village, or township is a "public agency" as defined in this Act.



"124.504 Joint exercise of powers.



Sec. 4.

A public agency of this state may exercise jointly with any other public agency of this state . . .any power, privilege, or authority that the agencies share in common and that each might exercise separately."

If a public agency is preempted from "exercising separately" firearms regulations, then it may not "exercise jointly" with other agencies to regulatefirearms.If a district library includes in its participating parties such preempted public agencies, then it may not regulate firearms, because such power may not be "exercised separately" by one or more of its public agency parties.



Run that by Ms. Parker and see what she thinks. If she haspreempted public agencies participating in her district library, she needs to be in compliance with MCL 124.504 and remove regulations of firearms that such public agencies can't "exercise separately".

 

[zigziggityzoo]

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DanM wrote:

a2fireball wrote:

I received this reply today.  I am not a lawyer, so I'm not sure if it is true that a district library is not a "local unit of government". 

Anyone?  What is the best definition of a local unit of government in Michigan?

"Dear Mr. Clancy,
        The Library received your email of June 7, 2009, and your request that the Library policy regarding weapons on library premises be amended within 90 days to comply with MCL 123.1102.   Please be advised that, as a district library organized pursuant to P.A. 24 of 1989, the Ann Arbor District Library is not a "local unit of government" subject to MCL 123.1101 et seq.         
        
        Josie Parker
        Director
        Ann Arbor District Library
        343 S. Fifth Avenue
        Ann Arbor, MI 48105 "

I am not an attorney.  The following is my layman's opinion from reading MCL:

A district library may not be a "local unit of government" itself, but if it includes among its parties "public agencies" as defined in Act 7 of 1967 (the "Urban Cooperation Act of 1967"), then it may be subject to the limitations of that act.

From Act 7 of 1967:

"124.502 Definitions.



Sec. 2.

. . . (e) “Public agency” means a political subdivision of this state or of another state of the United States or of Canada, including, but not limited to, a state government; a county, city, village, township, charter township, . . ."

A county, city, village, or township is a "public agency" as defined in this Act.

 

"124.504 Joint exercise of powers.



Sec. 4.

A public agency of this state may exercise jointly with any other public agency of this state . . . any power, privilege, or authority that the agencies share in common and that each might exercise separately."

If a public agency is preempted from "exercising separately" firearms regulations, then it may not "exercise jointly" with other agencies to regulate firearms.  If a district library includes in its participating parties such preempted public agencies, then it may not regulate firearms, because such power may not be "exercised separately" by one or more of its public agency parties.



Run that by Ms. Parker and see what she thinks.  If she has preempted public agencies participating in her district library, she needs to be in compliance with MCL 124.504 and remove regulations of firearms that such public agencies can't "exercise separately".

Nice! Where'd you get your law degree from? Jeez!