BobCav
Founder's Club Member
imported post
ConditionThree wrote:
ConditionThree wrote:
You just keep your dancing banana where we can't see it buster!
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New here... but why do you....????
- Thread starter heatho
- Start date
imported post
Actually your question about "why do you open carry" is a good one, and needs to be asked and answered (exercised) often IMHO:
Co-incidentally, I was one the phone with a para-legal at the NRA yesterday and we were speaking about this very subject as I called wanting to know why the NRA-ILA mentions NOTHING about open-carry in their handouts about state laws.
(The para-legal did not know why the NRA did not seem to speak much about open carry, although they are in court, somewhere in Michigan, helping defend someone on a couple of charges related to his open-carrying.)
Anyways at one point I offered that perhaps why "we" are losing the hearts and minds of the general public about the RKBA was, in part, that no-one saw us exercising the right. The para-legal thought that was a good point. (After all it is the motto of this forum's parent web site !)
Yes, it has also been mentioned in this thread already several times. But even our "bretheren", in this (gun/freedom) culture we share, need to ask and have the quesiton answered. And often. <- That is a part of why I open carry.
The OTHER reason is that it is damn uncomfortable to carry "criminal style" (concealed) in the summer here in NM. Thanks to the forebearers here in NM for making legal (open) carry possible ala our state's constitution.
Actually your question about "why do you open carry" is a good one, and needs to be asked and answered (exercised) often IMHO:
Co-incidentally, I was one the phone with a para-legal at the NRA yesterday and we were speaking about this very subject as I called wanting to know why the NRA-ILA mentions NOTHING about open-carry in their handouts about state laws.
(The para-legal did not know why the NRA did not seem to speak much about open carry, although they are in court, somewhere in Michigan, helping defend someone on a couple of charges related to his open-carrying.)
Anyways at one point I offered that perhaps why "we" are losing the hearts and minds of the general public about the RKBA was, in part, that no-one saw us exercising the right. The para-legal thought that was a good point. (After all it is the motto of this forum's parent web site !)
Yes, it has also been mentioned in this thread already several times. But even our "bretheren", in this (gun/freedom) culture we share, need to ask and have the quesiton answered. And often. <- That is a part of why I open carry.
The OTHER reason is that it is damn uncomfortable to carry "criminal style" (concealed) in the summer here in NM. Thanks to the forebearers here in NM for making legal (open) carry possible ala our state's constitution.
heatho
Regular Member
imported post
Good replies guys!!! And thanks for calling me to the carpet as to finding examples in threads of where I said I thought some might have "power trips" and others disrespecting LEO.I do not have time to go back right now and look for these threads... busy boy at work. But... I think when I said that I got the "impression that" maybe I was reading it into the post and that it really isn't there. I have to be honest though, when I first heard that it was actually legal in this state... I thought that there probably wasn't a "need" to do so and if one was OCing in the Seattle area it could be some sort of "power trip".
I have one other question though... If you have a CCP and you are carring a firearm in an OWB (not IWB)holster and the shirt you are wearing isn't completely covering the weapon is that considered OC? And legal? Or is this an All or nothing thing?
Good replies guys!!! And thanks for calling me to the carpet as to finding examples in threads of where I said I thought some might have "power trips" and others disrespecting LEO.I do not have time to go back right now and look for these threads... busy boy at work. But... I think when I said that I got the "impression that" maybe I was reading it into the post and that it really isn't there. I have to be honest though, when I first heard that it was actually legal in this state... I thought that there probably wasn't a "need" to do so and if one was OCing in the Seattle area it could be some sort of "power trip".
I have one other question though... If you have a CCP and you are carring a firearm in an OWB (not IWB)holster and the shirt you are wearing isn't completely covering the weapon is that considered OC? And legal? Or is this an All or nothing thing?
vrwmiller
Regular Member
imported post
I decided to think about this question for a while before responding....
Why do I carry (open or concealed)? The main reason I carry is for defense of myself and my family. Why do I choose open carry over concealed, most of the time? Quite frankly, because it is more comfortable, especially during the warmer months.
Other reasons would be "because I can", political activism, educational purposes. I've had multiple occassions, where carrying was more politically motivated (such as the Bloomburg Giveaway)
As for educational purposes? I carry all the time, even in my home, so...it's only educational when I am OC'ing in public. It's educational, even if citizen's don't ask questions...why? Because, even if one of those people go to reasearch the legality of doing so, then I've educated that person, regardless of whether I know it or not.
You ask if it's because of the "Power trip", "looking for trouble", or "looking for LEO encounter"...
a) Power trip: Absolutely not. Though, I will admit that OC'ing does contribute to one's self confidence.
b) Looking for trouble: No. I OC because I don't want trouble.
c) Looking for LEO encounter: Given the stories I've seen WRT negative LEO encounters, I'd rather not have one. However, I hope that I am well prepared for one should it happen.
You also asked if OC'ing makes one a bigger target to a badguy, should one be encountered. I say no because, I believe...
a) Street criminals don't want to die and will chose another target if they see someone OC'ing.
b) Most street criminals are not that aware of their surroundings.
c) They intend to accomplish a goal quickly, in as little time as possible.
d) Most street criminals are not that wise.
e) If one is situational aware of what is going on around them, this will not become and issue at all.
Like others, I would ask that you cite reliable statistics that support this theory. Everytime I have ever seen this theory spoken, I have never seen cites that show reliable information supprting it.
Just my .45
I decided to think about this question for a while before responding....
Why do I carry (open or concealed)? The main reason I carry is for defense of myself and my family. Why do I choose open carry over concealed, most of the time? Quite frankly, because it is more comfortable, especially during the warmer months.
Other reasons would be "because I can", political activism, educational purposes. I've had multiple occassions, where carrying was more politically motivated (such as the Bloomburg Giveaway)
As for educational purposes? I carry all the time, even in my home, so...it's only educational when I am OC'ing in public. It's educational, even if citizen's don't ask questions...why? Because, even if one of those people go to reasearch the legality of doing so, then I've educated that person, regardless of whether I know it or not.
You ask if it's because of the "Power trip", "looking for trouble", or "looking for LEO encounter"...
a) Power trip: Absolutely not. Though, I will admit that OC'ing does contribute to one's self confidence.
b) Looking for trouble: No. I OC because I don't want trouble.
c) Looking for LEO encounter: Given the stories I've seen WRT negative LEO encounters, I'd rather not have one. However, I hope that I am well prepared for one should it happen.
You also asked if OC'ing makes one a bigger target to a badguy, should one be encountered. I say no because, I believe...
a) Street criminals don't want to die and will chose another target if they see someone OC'ing.
b) Most street criminals are not that aware of their surroundings.
c) They intend to accomplish a goal quickly, in as little time as possible.
d) Most street criminals are not that wise.
e) If one is situational aware of what is going on around them, this will not become and issue at all.
Like others, I would ask that you cite reliable statistics that support this theory. Everytime I have ever seen this theory spoken, I have never seen cites that show reliable information supprting it.
Just my .45
Pa. Patriot
State Researcher
imported post
IOW: The common and clear effect of detterence FAR outweight the unlikely and extremely rare "target" probability.
IOW: The common and clear effect of detterence FAR outweight the unlikely and extremely rare "target" probability.
Hawkflyer
Founder's Club Member
imported post
While I would echo many of the comments I have read from others in this thread, I would add that sometimes it is just easier and quicker to strap on a holster than to conceal. Like many here, I have a CHP, but I do OC fairly frequently. Not all the time but often. Around the house (both inside and outside), I usually OC. If I happen to leave the property, I do not bother returning to the house to get "cover" for the weapon, I just go.
It would also be fair to say that the OP has most likely seen a few posts on this forum that would lead one to believe that the person is on some kind of power trip. I would offer one thread in particular -
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum62/2540.html
When you read the OP of that thread and some of his follow up posts, he is clearly more interested in the shock value he produces, than in any of the other facets of OC. In my opinion that individual is carrying a weapon for all the wrong reasons, never mind OCing.
I have seen a number of posts sprinkled throughout the forum, that leave a person wondering about similar motives. Most of these are from a few specific members. But in fairness to the OP in this thread, the forum software does not allow you to link to a single post, so it is not easy to provide citation for the post that seem to have mention of unreasonable motivations.
The short of it is that OC is a personal choice. It is among the legal methods available for firearms carry. There is no reason NOT to OC. So a more logical question would be, if you are going to carry a firearm, why would you NOT OC when it is in your personal interest to do so?
The comment was made that there is no "Need" to OC. That is very wrong. IF you have already made the choice to carry a firearm, it MUST be brought into the open before you can use it effectively. So why would you not keep it in the open? After all it is pretty useless if you can't get it out when you need it, and drawing is a form of OC, even if only a brief one.
It could be argued that if you CC all the time, you are trying to hide the fact that you are armed. The "comfort" of others in my opinion is insufficient to justify hiding the weapon. The argument that you are a target is not supported by even a single incident, yet there are a number of studies of criminals that PROVE that criminals will seek unarmed victims, and that the sight of a weapon will deter them.
Last but certainly not least. An armed society is a polite society. But only if people know you are armed.
Regards
While I would echo many of the comments I have read from others in this thread, I would add that sometimes it is just easier and quicker to strap on a holster than to conceal. Like many here, I have a CHP, but I do OC fairly frequently. Not all the time but often. Around the house (both inside and outside), I usually OC. If I happen to leave the property, I do not bother returning to the house to get "cover" for the weapon, I just go.
It would also be fair to say that the OP has most likely seen a few posts on this forum that would lead one to believe that the person is on some kind of power trip. I would offer one thread in particular -
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum62/2540.html
When you read the OP of that thread and some of his follow up posts, he is clearly more interested in the shock value he produces, than in any of the other facets of OC. In my opinion that individual is carrying a weapon for all the wrong reasons, never mind OCing.
I have seen a number of posts sprinkled throughout the forum, that leave a person wondering about similar motives. Most of these are from a few specific members. But in fairness to the OP in this thread, the forum software does not allow you to link to a single post, so it is not easy to provide citation for the post that seem to have mention of unreasonable motivations.
The short of it is that OC is a personal choice. It is among the legal methods available for firearms carry. There is no reason NOT to OC. So a more logical question would be, if you are going to carry a firearm, why would you NOT OC when it is in your personal interest to do so?
The comment was made that there is no "Need" to OC. That is very wrong. IF you have already made the choice to carry a firearm, it MUST be brought into the open before you can use it effectively. So why would you not keep it in the open? After all it is pretty useless if you can't get it out when you need it, and drawing is a form of OC, even if only a brief one.
It could be argued that if you CC all the time, you are trying to hide the fact that you are armed. The "comfort" of others in my opinion is insufficient to justify hiding the weapon. The argument that you are a target is not supported by even a single incident, yet there are a number of studies of criminals that PROVE that criminals will seek unarmed victims, and that the sight of a weapon will deter them.
Last but certainly not least. An armed society is a polite society. But only if people know you are armed.
Regards
BobCav
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Hawk, glad to see you back! You, sir are a statesman and a gentleman!
If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. To me, OpenCarrying is like signing your name larger than everyone else so as to be seen by all! Sound familiar?
Hawk, glad to see you back! You, sir are a statesman and a gentleman!
If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. To me, OpenCarrying is like signing your name larger than everyone else so as to be seen by all! Sound familiar?
OC-Glock19
Founder's Club Member
imported post
“There, I guess King George will be able to read that." :celebrate
“There, I guess King George will be able to read that." :celebrate
JSK333
Regular Member
imported post
heatho wrote:
How about your opinion on why or why not to do it?
You say you support OC for "the correct reasons." What are those correct reasons in your opinion?
Here are my reasons:
heatho wrote:
How about your opinion on why or why not to do it?
You say you support OC for "the correct reasons." What are those correct reasons in your opinion?
Here are my reasons:
- Quicker draw/access
- Deterrance
- No need for government permission/license (in most States)
- No need to worry about it being completely concealed, allowing for larger firearms that usually are easier to shoot and hold more ammo
- Visible reminder/proof that firearm owners are humans and are fairly normal (opposed to most anti-gunners' mindset)
Hawkflyer
Founder's Club Member
imported post
JSK333 wrote:
You have obviously not met BobCav
:lol::what::monkey
JSK333 wrote:
You have obviously not met BobCav
:lol::what::monkey
just_a_car
Regular Member
imported post
heatho, since I seem to be the first Washingtonian to respond to this, I'll give my reason for my future open carry, as I have yet to do so, due to not owning an OC holster.
#1: Educate the general public that it's okay for people to OC and that people that own guns aren't inherently evil. I don't intend on forcing the opinion on people, but if my OC'ing causes them to say something to the effect of "isn't that illegal?!", I'm more than happy to let them know that it's not and that they, too, can be an armed and respectable citizen of this great country.
#2: To a lesser extent political activism, but that follows with #1.
For now, I have my WA CPL and CC as often as possible for my personal protection and the protection of the lives of other innocent civilians. I'm not trying to be cop or a hero, I just care about the general preservation of human life and don't think I should give a criminal the chance to take that away when I could potentially stop it.
heatho, since I seem to be the first Washingtonian to respond to this, I'll give my reason for my future open carry, as I have yet to do so, due to not owning an OC holster.
#1: Educate the general public that it's okay for people to OC and that people that own guns aren't inherently evil. I don't intend on forcing the opinion on people, but if my OC'ing causes them to say something to the effect of "isn't that illegal?!", I'm more than happy to let them know that it's not and that they, too, can be an armed and respectable citizen of this great country.
#2: To a lesser extent political activism, but that follows with #1.
For now, I have my WA CPL and CC as often as possible for my personal protection and the protection of the lives of other innocent civilians. I'm not trying to be cop or a hero, I just care about the general preservation of human life and don't think I should give a criminal the chance to take that away when I could potentially stop it.
openryan
State Researcher
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I am not trying to put down anyone for open carry -- I fully support the right to open carry mostly for a deterrent affect, and because it is simply much more comfortable to do so.
As far as political activism -- It may change a few minds and it may desensitize people to guns, but I think that literature would be a better step than open carry -- people who are anti's certainly are not going to be in agreement with us just because we are showing them of our right.
First and foremost you should carry for protection and nothing else.
I am not trying to put down anyone for open carry -- I fully support the right to open carry mostly for a deterrent affect, and because it is simply much more comfortable to do so.
As far as political activism -- It may change a few minds and it may desensitize people to guns, but I think that literature would be a better step than open carry -- people who are anti's certainly are not going to be in agreement with us just because we are showing them of our right.
First and foremost you should carry for protection and nothing else.
Tomahawk
Regular Member
imported post
openryan wrote:
openryan wrote:
Well desensitizing is a better goal than changing their minds, anyway. Easier, and it takes some of the pressure off of those who wish to carry but thinkit is not socially acceptable.
openryan
State Researcher
imported post
I believe the open carry is more effective for desensitization more than political activism, although you may be excersizing your 2A rights, you will not be chaning any laws and a small amount of minds.
I believe the open carry is more effective for desensitization more than political activism, although you may be excersizing your 2A rights, you will not be chaning any laws and a small amount of minds.
imported post
openryan wrote:
To me, starting with just one person at a time is a good place to start.
And today is a good day to start if you have not already started.
openryan wrote:
A baby learns to walk one step at a time. And he learns to walk before he runs.
To me, starting with just one person at a time is a good place to start.
And today is a good day to start if you have not already started.
Tomahawk
Regular Member
imported post
openryan wrote:
Desensitizing IS the activism. That's the point. It complements all the arguing you do with people in conversations, the letters you write to newpapers and politicians, etc.
It helps to get people used to seeing the occasional pistol worn on a hip in public, so that they are less likely to think it's something to panic about.
You certainly won't change any minds, especially the hardcore antis, but you may cause a fence-sitter to look at an anti's message and say, "Well, I've seen people carrying guns a few times right here in crowded Northern Virginia, and it doesn't seem like big deal. So I won't bother getting involved with this Sara Whats-her-face's crusade."
Desensitizing steals a little bit of thunder from the antis.
openryan wrote:
Desensitizing IS the activism. That's the point. It complements all the arguing you do with people in conversations, the letters you write to newpapers and politicians, etc.
It helps to get people used to seeing the occasional pistol worn on a hip in public, so that they are less likely to think it's something to panic about.
You certainly won't change any minds, especially the hardcore antis, but you may cause a fence-sitter to look at an anti's message and say, "Well, I've seen people carrying guns a few times right here in crowded Northern Virginia, and it doesn't seem like big deal. So I won't bother getting involved with this Sara Whats-her-face's crusade."
Desensitizing steals a little bit of thunder from the antis.
openryan
State Researcher
imported post
Are you referring to desensitizing or political activism?
Are you referring to desensitizing or political activism?
Tomahawk
Regular Member
imported post
openryan wrote:
openryan wrote:
In this context the former serves as the latter.
openryan
State Researcher
imported post
I realize that the two serve in tandem, however do you think of no better avenue of chaning the minds of anti's than with stictly open carrying. These people are thinking facts. I firmly believe that not many of them will respond to oc'ing the way we wish. -- The fence-sitters -- maybe.
The people against us need to be shown facts and studies, we will acheive a minimal response from hardcore anti's like the Brady's from action alone.
I realize that the two serve in tandem, however do you think of no better avenue of chaning the minds of anti's than with stictly open carrying. These people are thinking facts. I firmly believe that not many of them will respond to oc'ing the way we wish. -- The fence-sitters -- maybe.
The people against us need to be shown facts and studies, we will acheive a minimal response from hardcore anti's like the Brady's from action alone.